Now some of you all may think im trolling, but look at this guy. 3:43 .. I don't know if anyone has ever brought it up on here, and by no means saying that he has, but I mean look how hard people have struggled to break 3:50. If Hicham wasn't doping does that mean he could have broken 3:40 in the mile?
Sorry, last sentance = If he wasn't doping, do that mean if he had went and doped could he have broken 3:40?
Hicham El Guerrouj : Blood doping :: Morphine addict : Trying aspirin.
...yes...
Its also possible that he was the man on the grassy knoll.
However, the one thing required to make a claim like this is PROOF....
I hate to make a blanket statement, but this is honestly how I feel ... I don't trust the performance of top level Moroccans. That includes El G. It would be nice to think that a human has run that fast without aid, but I don't think it's happened yet.
Webb can run 349...but somebody cant run 6 seconds faster?
if he doped he would have ran 335 or better...
It is very possible. I know of a english bloke that went to train with ElG and the only session he could not do with him was gym from 6pm - 7pm. Now what is so secretive doing gym?
Also they never let the IAAF where they were for out-of-competition testing and if they did find out where he was, guards would prohibit anyone from coming into contact with him.
Also it is widely known that when he finally won gold at Athens he was urged to retire as he could not be looked after anymore by the IAAF. So basically it was retire and look GREAT or continue on and get caught and lose credibility. He like most Moroccoans is a dirty stinking drug cheat. The heat has been turned up since the Athens Olympics.
There is no proof that El G. ever doped.
He was the hardest trainer in the world. His sessions in Ifrane were famous throughout the Arab world - he needed about 6 guys (all world class) to pace him (each taking a portion) through most of his sessions.
On long training runs on the plateau in Ifrane, he was also capable of dropping El Mouaziz a 2:07 marathoner....
You guys have to remember - El Guerouj was phenomenally talented (remember when he ran his debut 5000 in 12:50 and looked like he was jogging), plus he was the hardest training male athlete in the world. Even the Kenyans thought El G. was insane.
We have to stop this tendency to accuse people of doping. It really gives some of these guys who are clean a bad name.
El G. was tested enough in many locales (competition and not) throughout the world during his reign as the most dominant middle distance runner in the world.
Ghost
coach:
ghost wrote:
There is no proof that El G. ever doped.
He was the hardest trainer in the world. His sessions in Ifrane were famous throughout the Arab world - he needed about 6 guys (all world class) to pace him (each taking a portion) through most of his sessions.
On long training runs on the plateau in Ifrane, he was also capable of dropping El Mouaziz a 2:07 marathoner....
You guys have to remember - El Guerouj was phenomenally talented (remember when he ran his debut 5000 in 12:50 and looked like he was jogging), plus he was the hardest training male athlete in the world. Even the Kenyans thought El G. was insane.
We have to stop this tendency to accuse people of doping. It really gives some of these guys who are clean a bad name.
El G. was tested enough in many locales (competition and not) throughout the world during his reign as the most dominant middle distance runner in the world.
Ghost
coach:
christophe_moulton@yahoo.ca
My friend he was able to that quality and quantity due to what he was taking. As far as taking tests, you are living on another planet. For athletes of less talent, they would do twise the tests he would do.
It is like Geb, starting running at 8 and at 34 he is still attempting WR. He amazes me that he can have surgery after surgery and 3-6 months later be lining up for a WR attempt. It is humanly impossible. Other athletes that have has similiar problems need that time just to be able to run properly
Geb is just over 5 feet tall and does not weigh much more than 110 pounds, and he has a highly developed heart and lung system, tailor made for distance running.
On the contrary, Geb has shown time and again that he is human, like all of us, and has had quite a few setbacks in his career, such as the world cross in South Africa, where he was left for dead by the Kenyans, the London Marathon last year when he ran just 2:09, and this year in London when he dropped out.
These guys are super talented and they work hard. That combination is what produces champions - not doping.
Geb. and the best athletes have all been tested many times. They would be foolish to risk cheating and losing their careers.
I suppose you think Paul Tergat doped as well?
All this negativity is discrediting athletes who deserve praise, not suspicion.
Ghost
ghost wrote:
Geb is just over 5 feet tall and does not weigh much more than 110 pounds, and he has a highly developed heart and lung system, tailor made for distance running.
On the contrary, Geb has shown time and again that he is human, like all of us, and has had quite a few setbacks in his career, such as the world cross in South Africa, where he was left for dead by the Kenyans, the London Marathon last year when he ran just 2:09, and this year in London when he dropped out.
These guys are super talented and they work hard. That combination is what produces champions - not doping.
Geb. and the best athletes have all been tested many times. They would be foolish to risk cheating and losing their careers.
Jos Hermans a known blood doper in his day = coaching Geb, Bekele (who has won several WXC against hungry kenyans!!! not once but two races in two days) oh yeah Bekele's finacee dies of a heart attack at 18.
Gabriela Rosa kicked out of Italy for blood doping cyclists = coaching Tergat. Sammy Korir was a 2.12 guy who could have beat Tergat the day he broke the WR. He broke clear of Tergat but was told to slow down and let Tergat win as Korir had no contract as was just a pacer.
You be the judge. You live on cloud 9. Just read Conte's comments. Ghost you make judgements based on not having lived on the outside world!!
I suppose you think Paul Tergat doped as well?
All this negativity is discrediting athletes who deserve praise, not suspicion.
Ghost
ghost wrote:
Geb is just over 5 feet tall and does not weigh much more than 110 pounds, and he has a highly developed heart and lung system, tailor made for distance running.
On the contrary, Geb has shown time and again that he is human, like all of us, and has had quite a few setbacks in his career, such as the world cross in South Africa, where he was left for dead by the Kenyans, the London Marathon last year when he ran just 2:09, and this year in London when he dropped out.
These guys are super talented and they work hard. That combination is what produces champions - not doping.
Geb. and the best athletes have all been tested many times. They would be foolish to risk cheating and losing their careers.
I suppose you think Paul Tergat doped as well?
All this negativity is discrediting athletes who deserve praise, not suspicion.
Ghost
Jos Hermans a known blood doper in his day = coaching Geb, Bekele (who has won several WXC against hungry kenyans!!! not once but two races in two days) oh yeah Bekele's finacee dies of a heart attack at 18.
Gabriela Rosa kicked out of Italy for blood doping cyclists = coaching Tergat. Sammy Korir was a 2.12 guy who could have beat Tergat the day he broke the WR. He broke clear of Tergat but was told to slow down and let Tergat win as Korir had no contract as was just a pacer.
You be the judge. You live on cloud 9. Just read Conte's comments. Ghost you make judgements based on not having lived on the outside world!!
Victor Conte should be shot
eh? wrote:
Webb can run 349...but somebody cant run 6 seconds faster?
if he doped he would have ran 335 or better...
Never thought of it that way.
That's true, I now think that if El G was doping that Webb, Steve Scott and everyone else that is or ever was fast was doping as well.
Which is bullshit.
skah wrote:
It is very possible. I know of a english bloke that went to train with ElG and the only session he could not do with him was gym from 6pm - 7pm. Now what is so secretive doing gym?
Also they never let the IAAF where they were for out-of-competition testing and if they did find out where he was, guards would prohibit anyone from coming into contact with him.
Also it is widely known that when he finally won gold at Athens he was urged to retire as he could not be looked after anymore by the IAAF. So basically it was retire and look GREAT or continue on and get caught and lose credibility. He like most Moroccoans is a dirty stinking drug cheat. The heat has been turned up since the Athens Olympics.
You obviously don´t know how out of competition tests work. A friend of mine won the 2002 European marathon champs. It means that he´s on the IAAF "A-list" and HAS to let them know where he is 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. They can show up and test him ANYTIME and he can´t deny testing because that would be the same as admit drug use.
for those of you that think simply because an athlete like El G is tested and "nothing ever showed up positive" all that means is that someone, including the IAAF could have covered up positive test results.
is it so hard to believe that the people running the big track meets like Golden League, World Champs, Olympics, etc., would cover up a positive test to maintain marketability of their prized athlete or athletes?
people are making millions upon millions of dollars by having the El G's, lagat's, Maurice Green's, Jeremy Wariner's, etc., running at their track meets and you think they are going to have them busted so they can spend millions more to re-market the next guy or girl and take years for them to develop?
some of you people really have no idea about the real world of performance enhancing drugs. heck i could go into almost any ordinary gym today and within 3-4 weeks find someone willing to sell me some juice
and you think there aren't 1,0000 Victor Conte's around the world salavating at the chance to work with these athletes and provide them with perosnalized drug programs....paaaaaalllllleeeeeasee wake up to reality or as Conte tried to state in his latest interview.....
don't hate the playa, hate the game.
I know you have to let them know where you are but does that make it practical for them to come and test you in often remote locations? I would be interested to see the correct statistics on how many times EL G and these guys were actually tested.
I presume that when they are tested they do not test every sample for every drug?
If that is the case what are the statistical chances of actually catching someone?
I would tend to think pretty low considering the Marion Jones debacle and she was in a developed country and easily accessable to testers.
Skah: You sound like a jealous little bitch. So you couldn't compete with him -no on else could either.
It is very easy to accuse people.
Yes, there are cheaters, but the problem now is that every time an athlete runs fast, people say 'he/she is juiced'
It has become ridiculous. If guys like Ron Hill could run 2:09 over 30 years ago, running to and from work and working full days at work, then it is not unreasonable to think that athletes who live the real professional life of athletes with all the extra care and massages could run a few minutes faster - 4 minutes for Tergat. Tergat ran 26:28 for 10.000, Hill ran 28:30 for 10.000. Logical that Tergat should carry that cruising speed to the marathon, where 10k portions of the marathon covered in a little over 30 minutes feel like cruising speed to Tergat and other world class athletes.
Regarding Hermens. He is clean. He was a tremendously hard training athlete who had little talent but a high work ethic, and ran tremendous mileage (like Bedford). He became an incredible athlete through training and pain tolerance. He is clean, and I was around at the time in England (mid to late 70's) when he was at his peak. Trust me. I had access to all the athletes at the hotel (Queens hotel) in Crystal Palace area. Many of the world class athletes (the Mexicans who ran sub. 28 minutes for 10.000) were my friends and I saw everything. There are nowhere near the amount of dirty athletes that people claim.
Remember Cierpinski. He is now coaching his son, who recently ran 2:21 in Vienna...Cierpinski is a very healthy senior citizen, aged about 60. Shorter and everyone claimed that he doped, but if that were true, he would not be around today, as vigorous and healthy as he is.
It is easy to label people. But not easy to recognize to recognize extraordinary talent and hard work.
People are confused.
Ghost
be real wrote:
is it so hard to believe that the people running the big track meets like Golden League, World Champs, Olympics, etc., would cover up a positive test to maintain marketability of their prized athlete or athletes?
No, it's not so "hard to believe," just like it's possible to believe that the moon landings were a hoax, or that the Earth was created 6000 years ago. But coming up with a scenario, asking yourself if it's "possible," and then deciding that it must be true is simply a way of fabricating your own reality.
It's like the guy who says Sammy Korir was "told" not to beat Tergat in the marathon WR race. Possible? Of course. Does this guy have any actual evidence to suggest it? Of course not -- it's just a classic case of conflating the objective world with the imaginary landscape conjured up by a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist.
Could El G have been doping? Of course it's a possibility, but there's nothing on this thread that sheds any light on the question.