Double Dipping road race awards - good or bad?

FW,

Totally agree with you there. Although I have been known to shit can trophys on the way home, only because I am no longer interested in them. I also have given trophys back to the race director in a few races put on by a group that recycles used trophies.

Now I have been on both sides of the double dipping. Many years ago in San Diego I placed 7th overall in a 10k, my time would have won the 18-24 age group. I got a trophy that was a piece of driftwood with a sea shell glued to it. BUT no age group award because I was placed into the "Elite/Open" division. On the other hand, I was in a race in San Antionio where I placed in the top 3 overall, got a nice trophy for that, placed first in Age Group, got a nice trophy for that , and then was first in the Military Division and got nice trophy for that. I must admit to feeling a bit stupid by the third time I went up to the stage!!

I say no double dipping, except for masters in races that feature $$.

From now on, when people ask why the U.S. sucks at distance running, I'm just gonna show them a copy of this thread. You people think you're entitled to win your age group even if five people in that age group finish ahead of you.

You think the Kenyans have this discussion?

Never double dip, in road races or food matters.

With money, definitely. If open guys aren't fast enough to beat the crotchety old men, they shouldn't get any money and the masters should get masters money and the open money as well.

As for other awards, like medals and plaques I don't think double dipping is a good idea (who wants 2 plaques or medals from the same race?). But if a race just gives merchandise prizes to the top 3 overall, then gives age group plaques or medals to these people as well, then that's OK.

Luckily I was able to win some age group awards before Dick, Miles and Miles, and Rose turned 30. Now I can't wait to turn 35.

Lots of talk about masters and $. Just make sure that the awards make sense. In a road race a few years ago I was sitting in 4th place and was also 1st master. I knew that 1st master had a bigger purse than 3rd place open. Not much incentive to me to try and reel in the 3rd place guy. I stayed where I was (kinda regret it though as I PR'd and could've done a bit more).

Ok, you should DEFINITELY keep the double-dip. Why? If your REALLY 2nd place in your age group, but because someone in your age group actually ran fast and won the thing, you get First place, does that make any sense? YAY! I won the first place for my age category, except not really, because like the other guy ahead of me was too fast so he got DQed from my age category. WHAT KIND OF PANSY ASSED BULLSHIT IS THAT? thats just the dumbest thing i\'ve ever heard.

tommy boy wrote:Ok, you should DEFINITELY keep the double-dip. Why? If your REALLY 2nd place in your age group, but because someone in your age group actually ran fast and won the thing, you get First place, does that make any sense? YAY! I won the first place for my age category, except not really, because like the other guy ahead of me was too fast so he got DQed from my age category. WHAT KIND OF PANSY ASSED BULLSHIT IS THAT? thats just the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

You get it! I love you man! (But not like that; its OK if it was like that, but I don't mean it like that.)

All of you are damn amateurs and that is why our sport is not a major sport! Do you think when Jack Nicklaus comes to play on the PGA tour for one weekend he will turn down the double dipping? Hell no! He deserves to beat the younger players and take the check. No cry babies on the PGA tour of course, only the big cry babies in the minor league sport of roadracing!

Eddy

Agree with Eddy. If there HAD been double-dipping in the race I mentioned above, I would've put the screws to it to get 3rd!

OTOH, If there's no money and it's just little age-group awards, don't worry about it and just make the average runner happy (even if it's not accurate). If I was at a local 5k and placed in the open category I'd feel sort of goofy going back to pick up a ribbon or whatever for an added age-group win. I mean, what am I going to do with this award anyway? Better to give it to someone else to whom it might serve as an incentive.

like others have mentioned, I too have been screwed by this system. Took 3rd in a local 5k a while back in high school. My buddy was 4th. Top 3 got awards so I got a styrofoam 4 leaf clover with some candy and a heinous green tie, he won the age group and got a $50 gift certificate. Yeah, that's real fair. You should only be able to double dip if you are 18 yrs and under or older than 35 or so. Having an age group that's 18-29 is just ridiculous.

I agree on double dipping if there is money, but if it is for a freakin trophy who cares? I still think that a trophy is going to mean more to a mediocre guy rather than a guy that came in first.

I totally think moneywise you should always double dip. It isn't fair really if a master runner wins overall that he does not get prizes for both.

Glad to see some sanity from the last few posters. A race isn't about everybody being winners; its a damned race. To the victor goes the spoils. If you want a cheesy plastic trophy for your age group, then train harder. This "lets have more winners" stuff is a bunch of crap. No wonder we suck.

Line up. Shoot the gun. You run what you run. PERIOD.

Eddy, a golfer like yourself knows there's no age-group awards in PGA tournaments. There's the possibility of two separate single-dips, not a double-dip, for Nicklaus.

The Golden Bear has to play square-up against Tiger in the regular PGA Tour events. If he's seeking to get paid based on being the best Old Bastard golfer, he has to play against the Walrus in the PGA Senior Tour events.

"I think that is what those runners WANT you to think, but having been friends with many accomplished road racers, I've found the opposite to be true. I have a few running friends who have award rooms in their basements dedicated to all the trophies and medals they've won, and one of them was a regular sub 31 10K guy during his prime - not Geblike, but he was winning just about everything on the local scene. While I was never a STUD runner, I've won my share of races, and I have all of those things in my basement - along with newspaper clippings, pictures, etc. I even keep the marathon finishers medale, even though I don't really care about them - just a reminder of the race."

He Flagpole, instead of massaging your ego for the rest of your days, try donating your old trophies to the local children's running program. Might help keep some kid interested, motivated in the sport. I've donated over 500 trophies, and it sure feels great. Think about it.

And as for the original post, double dip only with cash involving masters.

Another solution to the problem: the races I've directed (many, many over the years) I've provided top 5 overall, then 5 year age groups, 5 deep. More satisfied customers.

An overall winner should not get a second award for being an age group winner.

Someone who did not win their age group should not get an award for winning their age group.

If a 35 year old wins the race then no prize should be given for first in the 30-39 age group.

If it is a gift certificate or even cash, raffle it off.

If it is a trophy or medal, make it generic so you can use it for another event.

Flagpole Willy wrote:

Cooter,

I think that is what those runners WANT you to think, but having been friends with many accomplished road racers, I've found the opposite to be true. I have a few running friends who have award rooms in their basements dedicated to all the trophies and medals they've won, and one of them was a regular sub 31 10K guy during his prime - not Geblike, but he was winning just about everything on the local scene. While I was never a STUD runner, I've won my share of races, and I have all of those things in my basement - along with newspaper clippings, pictures, etc. I even keep the marathon finishers medale, even though I don't really care about them - just a reminder of the race.

Yeah, OK, you're right. I've got every sorry little ribbon and trophy I've ever won squirreled away in a bunch of boxes. I just assumed the really, really fast guys probably didn't give a damn about a bit of plastic!

OK, this discussion has been...mostly helpful. Let me assure you, I will not have trophies of any kind! I think they are great for high school and junior divisions but most adults don't want another trophy.

I agree with the idea that if there is overall cash and cash for top master, that a master should double dip if (s)he qualifies for both.

I will plan to NOT allow double dip. I will make sure the overall prizes are better than the age group prizes, so no one can argue they got cheated out of a better prize for a worse performance.

How about winning the overall race and getting just the age group award? That is what happened to me while in high school. I won the race, but they gave me the 15-18 award while Mr. second place walked away with the open award. It left me with a feeling that I wasted a good effort. Most people did not even know that I had won the race. I definitely left feeling very cheated.

nhrr says he will make sure the open prizes are better than the age group prizes. If you award 100.00 to the over-all winner and 75.00 to the masters winner and a masters runner wins the whole thing shouldn't they get both rather than choosing the "best" or as some races do in your home town what if first over-all is an air ticket and then 50 bucks for the first masters. If I'm a masters runner and can win both the race and my division I should be ablle to claim both.