Another TALENTED foreigner seeking US citizenship

Why don't you people complain about runners like Boaz taking away scholarships from "real Americans". What's the difference. Lets kick these dirty foriegners out of our schools. As a matter a fact they are probably renting somewhere a "real American" could live, so lets kick them out of their houses. They are probably eating some of the "real Americans" food so lets not let them do that either. They are breathing "our" air too, don't allow that. Break out the pitch forks and torches and chase them "foriengers" out of our country.

Get over it already, these people belong as much as anyone. If your family weren't the first inhabitants of this great country (US) then you don't belong either. What's the difference?

Double standard..........you so crazy.

i doubt boaz wants to become an american citizen so he can run and make a couple thou a year or make the olympic team in the 10000 and still have absolutely no one outside of this board know who he is. i'm guessing it has something to do with the fact the he can get a job here as a teacher, something we really do need, and he can make more every two weeks then he would in an entire year in kenya. he will make more in his first year teaching, even with what teachers make, than he will probably make as a runner. that sounds like a more plausible reason.

Mzungu

Well I agree with you that Boaz Chebioywo is not seeking American citizenship for athletic reason; however, he is good enough to make more running than the teacher's salary.

Boaz ran 27:46 will in college and under the collegiate schedule, place him in a good setting without having to peak for x-country, indoors, and outdoors NCAA and watch out. If he remains in athletics and injury free he will be a threat to make the 5000m or 10000m team and possibly challenge the 10000m AR.

Vipam

Sports Op-Ed Piece from Saturday's Daily Nation. Thought it was appropriate for this thread. Vipam, you're probably right that he'll make more, but not a ton. 27:46 is pretty good, but it's not going to get him jack in Europe, that kind of talent won't win him anything significant on the roads over here, and I don't see him as having that much upside. I've watched him race since 2000 in Kenya, and I haven't seen any real improvement in the level of his performance since then. A Kenyan turned American is not supremely marketable unless there are extenuating circumstances. What I'm wondering is if maybe B. Lagat won't be an American soon. Why would Nike dump advertising money into him unless they will be holding a blue chip sometime soon. I'd like to think that it's just a reflection of their commitment to promoting running, but seems a little altruistic of them. Anyway, enjoy the reading - interesting to hear the other side of the argument.

As I See It

Saturday, August 2, 2003

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Lornah Kiplagat: Out of Africa

By SULUBU TUVA

Events this week bring into sharp focus certain realities the Kenyan sporting fraternity will face in the future.

As the turnover of world class athletes mounts, more will seek greener pastures elsewhere.

The issues facing local federations, therefore, are how best to create an enabling environment for our top performers to want to stay here even in the face of technological advances being made abroad.

Lorna Kiplagat's decision to take up her Dutch husband's nationality may be seen as a let down by Kenyans, yet she has faced a certain reality not peculiar to her circumstances alone.

Zola Budd became known to the athletics? world in the early eighties when, as a barefooted teenager, she produced one incredible record-breaking performance after another in women?s middle distance running.

The shy, slightly built Budd excelled in distances from the 1,500 metres to the 10,000 metres, but wasn?t able to compete internationally because of the apartheid policies of the South African government.

She took a drastic step to realise her ambition of competing in the Olympic Games. She applied for British citizenship on the grounds that she had a British grandfather.

The Daily Mail newspaper pushed her case and her application for citizenship was rushed through, allowing her to qualify to represent Britain in the 3,000 metres in the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics, sparking a worldwide debate.

I hope I too can be forgiven for feeling perhaps the majority of African athletes who move out of the continent do so for reasons that have nothing to do with a new found love, understanding and acceptance of the ideas pertaining to Africa as expressed at the Berlin Conference of 1875 under Otto von Bismarck.

There is an aspect of exploitation from all parties when it comes to the issue of granting citizenship.

We may choose to think there is an element of mercenary intent in all athletes from the Third World who wish to move to the First.

However, closer scrutiny reveals this only plays a small part. There are other realities that surround us everyday.

Is it not a fact that it is almost, if not totally, impossible for our sportsmen and even ourselves to actualise our potential in our home countries? No matter how fast our sportsmen run, how high or how broad they jump, they will still be looked at through the prism of ethnic considerations.

Our sportsmen know that this need not be the case. They have known and enjoyed real appreciation as individuals in the pavements and cafes of Europe yet they walk, invisible, like street people, amongst us.

The upside of Kiplagat becoming Dutch is quick to see. Little competition for team places, higher media profile, a general lifestyle standard higher than her status would guarantee here at home and a general broadening of her perspective on life and sport.

One cannot expect her to totally consign to the dustbin of forgotten memories the 29 years, or so, of what being Kenyan has meant.

Kenya has, after all, offered her the opportunity to become an athlete of considerable reputation on purely talent and skill alone.

Not that these are things a sportsman or woman cannot achieve in Kenya. It's just that it tends to take a great deal longer.

With the state-of-the-art training facilities readily available in the First World, easier living conditions, better medicare and weight control mechanisms through personalised nutrition programmes, an athlete living in Europe can extend their competitive period well beyond that of a local based athletes.

However, these are only tools.

A Buddhist saying goes "a sword is useless in the hand of a coward."

Strong faith and ability has to be present in the first place. This is the advantage Kenya and Africa will always have.

Only Kenya could produce Wilson Kiprugut, Naftali Temu, Kipchoge Keino, Ben Jipcho, John Kipkurgat, Robert Ouko, Julius Sang, Bill Koskei, Hezekiah Nyamau, Henry Rono, John Ngugi, Paul Ereng, Nixon Kiprotich, Ibrahim Hussein, Paul Kipkoech and Douglas Wakiihuri.

Irrespective of how Lorna's career turns out I can only hope she has taken cognisance of what her move really means in immigration terms.

By opting to become a citizen of the Netherlands, she is forfeiting her rights as a Kenyan. The current Kenyan constitution has no allowance for dual citizenship.

She follows in the footsteps of another illustrious athlete.

Wilson Kipketer, just an ordinary 800 metre runner as a Kenyan, attained world-class times running for Denmark a country he adopted and rewarded with the world record of 1 min. 41.11seconds achieved after breaking the 17-year-old previous best by Britain's Sebastian Coe.

Africa has continued to provide the bulk of the world's best sports people, even in the diaspora, for country's seemingly incapable of raising their own.

Slough-born Briton Fiona May now long jumps for Italy.

France won their inaugural soccer World Cup in 1998 on the back of a team mostly composed of immigrants, the bulk of them African.

Little wonder perhaps why French ultra right-wing politician and future presidential candidate Jean-Marie Le Pen was perturbed.

He publicly wondered if those fellows could accurately pronounce the lyrics to the La Marsellaise, the French national anthem.

Portugal's proudest soccer moments were when their club Benfica enjoyed the services of Eusebio da Silva Ferreira known to the world as simply Eusebio.

Born on January 25, 1942 in Lourenco Marques the Mozambican capital now re-named Maputo the legendary "Black Panther", or "Black Pearl", as he was known, was top scorer in the 1966 World Cup, with nine goals to his name as a Portuguese.

He made his debut with Mozambique's Sporting Club du Lourenco Marques, a nursery club of Sporting Lisbon, but was ""kidnapped" by Benfica on his arrival to Lisbon and hidden away in an Algarve fishing village until the arguments between the clubs died down.

There is an interesting story to Eusebio for those who may not be aware.

He was a member of the first side to beat legendary Real Madrid in a European Cup final. In 1962 Benfica trounced the Spanish aristocrats and five-time winners of the trophy 5-3 in the final. Eusebio scored twice.

Eusebio made such an impression on the British public in the 1966 World Cup that his figure was immediately added to Madame Tussaud's waxwork collection.

Bela Guttmann, Benfica's coach, first heard of Eusebio in a hairdresser's salon in Lisbon.

In the chair next to him was the coach of Brazil's Sao Paolo club who were touring Portugal. He told Guttmann about a brilliant footballer he had seen in Portuguese East Africa.

Guttmann flew out and within a week had bought Eusebio.

So in his case one can say Portugal hit the bull's-eye.

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Kenyan athletes dread any loss of form for that can make the difference between landing invitations to the top money events or the run-of-the-mill bread and butter circuits.

In between them stands the athletes' representatives. Nothing fulfils like an athlete on a hot streak. This explains why Kenya's form fluctuates to the levels that it does when it comes to the major international events.

Generally there are several ways of looking at this phenomenon.

One is that the athlete needs to make as much money as possible in the shortest time possible. The agents cannot fault this, for in the success of the athlete lies their own bread and butter.

As long as one is on-form, agents face no shortage of meet promoters willing to listen. When form dips, however, the story changes. The athletes become elements at variance with the needs of the agents and meet promoters. They are put on the back burner.

These days, it is almost impossible to predict Kenya's form in any event besides the 3,000 metres steeplechase. While at one time we instinctively knew where to expect medals from at major events, that reality is no longer with us.

Mzungu- was in Nairobi coming back from Rwanda last weekend. I should have looked you up. Are you living there right now? Would have been nice to have someone to run with.

nope, back in the US right now. probably won't be back in kenya till next june. even then, i avoid nairobbery like the plague. i don't really think it's that dangerous, but i can do everything i need to in eldoret with 1/3 the hassle. the other problem is that all i can do is about 7 min pace these days - i spend my time at the gym in eldoret lifting and watching ESPN or skysports. hope rwanda was kind to you.

mzungu

Janus?seeing both ways wrote:

then why can't there be a waiting period from getting citizenship bfore competing for your new country... like 2-5 years. then we could be pretty sure that people were not just changing for athletic reasons. they would have to sacrifice something (some of their career at international level) for some time. although they could always compete in golden league etc... just not in the big games.

would that work?? maybe need to work on the precise details a bit...

There are limitations. They are kinda complex and vary from sport to sport. If you have represented another country at Worlds or the Olympics, the country of origin has to "release" you to expedite things.

One of the Arab countries bought all the Romanian "B" team lifters for Sydney. Really, they gave the federation hard currency. I think it was Bahrain.

hornfin wrote:

In the States one can slide through the immigration process if you are "someone with extraordinary talent." This is some huge category the BOI uses that allows pro athletes or esteemed scholars to come over here with little trouble. Its alright they do this. It just bothers me that pro athletes from Africa can come here with little trouble when at the same time their countrymen back home are not allowed assylum in most cases if they are being persecuted. Seems kind of screwed up to me.

Not so anymore. KK got screwed in 2000. Of course that had a lot to do with corruption. Since 9/11 things have really slowed down from what I hear.

Mzungu

I am surprised that you think Boaz couldn't perform well in Europe or on the roads, he is only 25 years old and I think he will make drastic improvements in the 5000m and 10000m for several years. In 2003 Boaz improved his personal best from the Mile to the 10000m (first year running the mile ran 3:58 indoors). He may not break the 10000m WR but Boaz could very well plug his way to 26:50-26:55 range before the end of his career and that would be pretty damn good.

Mzungu you might have something with your Benard Lagat/Nike

theory!

Vipam

Luv2Run wrote:

hornfin wrote:

In the States one can slide through the immigration process if you are "someone with extraordinary talent." This is some huge category the BOI uses that allows pro athletes or esteemed scholars to come over here with little trouble. Its alright they do this. It just bothers me that pro athletes from Africa can come here with little trouble when at the same time their countrymen back home are not allowed assylum in most cases if they are being persecuted. Seems kind of screwed up to me.

Not so anymore. KK got screwed in 2000. Of course that had a lot to do with corruption. Since 9/11 things have really slowed down from what I hear.

You're not kidding! It now takes the BCIS over a year to renew a 'green card'! A friend of mine applied for citizenship over 6 years ago, he's still waiting. :(

What you are saying might be correct somewhat but I don't think it is correct to say people will leave their country to seek US citizenship. I am not speaking for all the countries in the world but I know for a fact none of the Ethiopian top runners will leave Ethiopia to seek nationality in any country. Yes, Ethiopia is a very poor country and the government is very corrupted but if you are a top runner and making good money like Kenenisa and others, people treat them like a king and they are national heroes which I don't see for top American runners. I don't know that much about Kenyans but I think probably the same so I disagree with your statement.

Think of it this way...

How would you feel if you were a Kenyan distance runner who finished 4th at their trials and didn't make the Olympics, but were fast enough to be one of the 10 best in the world--or even better. Shouldn't the Olympic games feature the best athletes in the world??

That being said, an athlete shouldn't switch nationalities purely for athletic purposes. Maybe their should be a new structure on how many athletes a country can have in the games, or even higher time standards so that we have the best athletes and none of this switching of nationalities.

Tough issue.

Don't get me wrong, I like Boaz. I've met him and he's a cool guy. But I think guys who become US citizens late in life should have to run for their original country. I know there is no way you can run for a country you are not a citizen of, so it may sound like a stupid idea, but I feel someone should represent the US as an athlete only when they have spent all or most of their life in the US. Boaz should be able to live in the US and make a living as he would like to do, but I think people will see him as another 'import who now labels himself as a US runner' and not carry the same weight with the fans or his close US competitors as a US runner. Not to say he would be as loyal (or even more loyal) of a citizen as his fellow US runners, but I think the public and competive eye will see him in the above mentioned light. Maybe I'm wrong, but just what I think.

Otis, The Olympics should host the best athletes from EACH country, not necesarily the best in the world. I think Bannister said it best when he felt countries were not playing by the true Olympic nature when they do everything they can to just beat other countries and just give their countrymen an equal chance to compete. Just because there are B level Kenyans who may beat all the US runners, doesn't mean they belong there more so than the US runners. We don't ban the Bahamas from send marathoners if they want to. It's more about country representation, not doing anything and everything just to be the winning country and loosing your identity with the remainder of the country.

did u guys grand,grand,grand,grand,grand,grand,grand,grand,grand,grand plus some more grand parents asked for permission when the came over to the US? NO, they gave the indians the bible and took away their land now the indians areliveing on reservations and has no freaking power in the US. u american a f***ing lazy it a shame the C runners from another country can come over and become Americas A runners. heheheheheehehehe says a lot about the state of the sports in this country. y isn't it happenning in Football( excuse me hand ball), and basket ball?

Remember what u guys did to my ancestors? ( slavery) well it's payback time. we want u guys team spots, next we are going to f*** u guys wifes, hold on it's happening already.

when they go black they can't go back.

fire red.