Are you serious? wrote:
Tom Hanks wrote:actually a lot of catholics were really upset with the Da Vinchi Code
and a lot of Jews were really upset with The Passion of the Christ
yeah but no one died as a direct result from the "outrage" caused by the release of these movies.
That's because Catholics and jews are of a higher order than the filthy muslims.
NikeXC: just give 'em time. You just gave them another excuse to pull the same s*it they did last year after those cartoons ran in the Danish press.
Hooray for Denmark!!!!!
~Brutal~ wrote:
All anyone has to do is study up on Mohammad. He was a murderous/pedophile, who went about killing all those who wouldn't submit to Islam. After boning up on Mohammad go check out the Koran. I wonder how many times words like..kill,torment,cut off, slay...are used? Vicious religion based on world dominance. You are either with them, or you are a dreaded infidel. Infidels get their heads chopped off.
Don't take my word for any of that. Do your homework...I did!
You should check out the Bible, too. Murderous document there, as well. Leviticus recommends selling disobedient daughters into slavery and stoning insolent sons to death.
No sense of history on this thread? What was up in Europe during the Dark Ages? Oh yeah, a whole lot of nothing except death and the loss of knowledge. Meanwhile the Muslim world was booming, with advances in trade and science. Richest nation in the Eastern Hemisphere was Mali. Mansa Musa brought an entourage of 40,000 people with him on his hajj.
You know that in 1054, when the supernova from what's know the Crab Nebula became visible on Earth, it was so bright that it was described as a second sun in the sky, and that for a month people could read at night. There are records of this description in documents from Muslim and Chinese scholars, but none from European Christian scholars, who taught that the Heavens were static and unchanging and chose to ignore this second sun.
Algebra, azimuth, 123456789 and of course the 0 all come from Arabic. Just about everything you know about ancient Greek history and philosophy was recorded into Arabic by Arab scholars and then transalted into Spanish/Latin in the 15th and 16th century by Jewish scribes.
Tuone Udaina, you are such a joke.
I agree with you on most of your posts, but you come off as such a defensive and arrogant ass, I wish I didn't.
Tuone Udaina wrote:
You should check out the Bible, too. Murderous document there, as well. Leviticus recommends selling disobedient daughters into slavery and stoning insolent sons to death.
Wow, one arcane example in the Old Testament, which is not compatible with Jesus' teachings anyway, versus the ubiquitous, primitive mindset of the Koran. Funny thing is, the Koran and Bible both were initially derived from the Jewish Torah, but the Koran went astray. Perhaps both religions were initially paying homage to the same God, but Muslims eventually perverted the meaning of the Koran to suit their needs and reinforce their culture.
You say you don't defend Islam, but you are always on here demeaning the Bible in response to an assault on Islam. Mohammed WAS a pedophile, a polygamist, a warlord, and generally a not-very-righteous dude. It's amazing to me that people get so stuck on ANY religion, let alone Islam, without being able to objectively assess and refute what is being propagandized.
Tuone Udaina wrote:
No sense of history on this thread? What was up in Europe during the Dark Ages? Oh yeah, a whole lot of nothing except death and the loss of knowledge. Meanwhile the Muslim world was booming, with advances in trade and science.
Great, you have the Dark Ages going for you. Things sure change don't they?!
Tuone Udaina wrote:
No sense of history on this thread? What was up in Europe during the Dark Ages? Oh yeah, a whole lot of nothing except death and the loss of knowledge. Meanwhile the Muslim world was booming, with advances in trade and science. Richest nation in the Eastern Hemisphere was Mali. Mansa Musa brought an entourage of 40,000 people with him on his hajj.
You know that in 1054, when the supernova from what's know the Crab Nebula became visible on Earth, it was so bright that it was described as a second sun in the sky, and that for a month people could read at night. There are records of this description in documents from Muslim and Chinese scholars, but none from European Christian scholars, who taught that the Heavens were static and unchanging and chose to ignore this second sun.
Algebra, azimuth, 123456789 and of course the 0 all come from Arabic. Just about everything you know about ancient Greek history and philosophy was recorded into Arabic by Arab scholars and then transalted into Spanish/Latin in the 15th and 16th century by Jewish scribes.
Great, wow, you are once again referring to examples from the Dark Ages. Yes, I would agree with you, most Muslims are still stuck in the Dark Ages. I would say that we should bomb them back to medieval times, except that they never really left. Oh, and by the way, without Western technology, they could not even pull the lifeblood of their pathetic economies out of the ground, nor could they organize, implement, and execute their pansy-ass acts of terror. Biggest hypocrites alive.
I'm an atheist, but Christianity is no better/worse than Islam. It's all about which passages you want to focus on. The Koran also says things such as:
You who believe! Show integrity for the sake of God, bearing witness with justice. Do not let hatred for a people incite you into not being just. Be just. That is closer to heedfulness. Heed God (alone). God is aware of what you do. (Surat al-Ma'ida: 8)
"…there is no compulsion in religion…"2:256
"…To you your religion, to me my religion…" 109:6
"It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things), and God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
God does not forbid you, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loves those who are just." 60:7-8
The basic problem for many religions (all Abrhamic religions) is that you're dealing with ancient world texts in a modern day context. You can take a verse/part of the Torah, Bible or Qur'an and try to use it for just about any means you want.
It's against Moses' (and God's) law to kill, right? In Christianity, that's a big sin, correct? And yet Pat Robertson saw no problem in adovcating for hte assassination of Hugo Chavez. He found a way, despite what the Ten Commandments command, to justify murder given religious doctrine. There are Muslim leaders who do the same, because they want power/are pissed off at the current conditions, etc. People use "God" for their own means. Most are pretty good, some very vocal and powerful nuts use it to their own means.
Can't we all just try to get along?
And this affects us, how?
organized religion is the bane of human existence...it is the basis of we vs them...it has caused more wars and human suffering than anything else..
...we should all study science or art....and adopt the old soviet model of not allowing organized religion to intertwine with foundations of any political system....
leave your personal religion at home
You're right, things change. In several decades, I wouldn't be shocked to see the world's superpower in the Eastern Hemisphere again.
Think about all the Muslim countries you can. Why are they in the positions that they are currently?
Think about the conditions that brought about European/American dominance of the world. Europe got very lucky.
The difference is, Pat Robertson was talking tongue-in-cheek and nobody listens to that bullshit anyway, unlike the Imams in backward-ass, ideological Arabia. Nobody in America advocates killing ANY innocent civilians in the name of religion, despite the far-let's utterly useless rantings about Iraq. I agree with you that you can find an example in religion to support just about anything you want, but the difference between the Bible and the Koran is that the Bible evolved.
Tuone Udaina wrote:
You're right, things change. In several decades, I wouldn't be shocked to see the world's superpower in the Eastern Hemisphere again.
Think about all the Muslim countries you can. Why are they in the positions that they are currently?
Think about the conditions that brought about European/American dominance of the world. Europe got very lucky.
Well, let's see... hmmm. CIVILIZATIONS that embrace religious, political, social, and economic freedoms flourish, whereas those "civilizations" that don't merely flounder and look to place blame on the West for their "victimization."
This goes on and on and on. Over 400 similiar scriptures.
You need to bone up on your Koran.
Cruelty in the Quran
For them is drink of boiling water and a painful doom, because they disbelieved.--6:70
Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6
Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 2:10
A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24
Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 90
"Whosoever hath done evil and his sin surroundeth him; such are rightful owners of the Fire." 2:81
If you believe in only part of the Scripture, you will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85
Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell. 2:96
For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104
For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 2:114
"And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire." (They are the non-muslims.) 2:119
Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 2:126
The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162
Allah is severe punishment! 2:165-6
They will not emerge from the Fire. 2:167
Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 2:174
How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 2:175
"Fight in the way of Allah." 2:190, 2:244
Believers must retaliate. Those who transgress will have a painful doom. 2:178
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
"Guard us from the doom of Fire." 2:201
Those who fail in their duty to Allah are proud and sinful. They will all go to hell. 2:206
War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216
Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217
Those who marry unbelievers will burn in the Fire. 2:221
Disbelievers worship false gods. The
Whatever Tuone wrote:
The difference is, Pat Robertson was talking tongue-in-cheek and nobody listens to that bullshit anyway, unlike the Imams in backward-ass, ideological Arabia.
If the Christians in America felt us f***ed as Muslims in other countries, Pat Robertson would be filling in the same position as an radical Islamic leader. The difference is that many of his listeners are near the top of the food chain.
Nobody in America advocates killing ANY innocent civilians in the name of religion,
Nobody? Eric Rudolf? The Christian Identity Movement?
but the difference between the Bible and the Koran is that the Bible evolved.
I would argue that it's just a case of (per capita) Christians being in a better position than Muslims. Hell, when Muslims ruled Iberia for over 700 years, they let Jews use the Mosques as Synogogues on Saturdays and Christians use them as Churches on Sundays. When the Christian kingdoms regained control, they had the Inquisitions.
That sounds pretty harsh! But I'm sure they don't mean it being the "Religion of Peace" and all that.
[quote]Tuone Udaina wrote:
I would argue that it's just a case of (per capita) Christians being in a better position than Muslims.[quote]
Yeah, because the 9/11 hijackers were in such dire straits.
It has nothing to do with being in a "better postion," it has to do with culture. Despite its problems, Western Culture is FAR better than any other on earth.
I've got over 700 from the Bible.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/ot.html
But why post them all here?