National Cross Country- Sunderland

Knowing what some school teacher friends have to go through when taking a party of kids to the zoo or on a trip overseas I'm pretty sure that the legal side alone is a bit of a headache, unfortunately we live in a 'blame' society. I couldn't fancy being responsible for the welfare of 30 odd people in one of the most dangerous countries in the world.

If the lads in the team do well it will be 'in spite' of the set up and if they do badly it will be 'becasue of' the set up, at least thats what lots of people would like to think.

The team this year is full of lads who have worked their way up through the levels of the sport and should be seen as a good example of what hard work brings. It is probably the hardest race in the world in which to make an impact but I hope they do themselves proud.

I think the way this thread has developed (as most of the UK ones do) highlights a number of issues.

1) I don't believe that most (hopefully all) the guys positng here aren't supportive of the guys who are in the UK team. Concerns are obviously raised about the overall standard of the current crop at the top of the UK tree, but if they're the best its not their fault - to a man they are all doing everything they see as fit to be the best they can, I'm sure.

2) The bigger question has to be - yes, these guys aren't of the standard of some of the past runners (track and road especially are about as objective a sport as you get and I'm sure they chaps know this themselves) - so where are the Martins, Bedfords & Hutchings' of this generation? Did they ever exist? If so did they ever compete in the sport? If so again, what happened - was it illness, injury, other sports, jobs, disinterest or lack of incentive that meant they didn't fulfill their potential? Most likely its one or more of these - the question is how do we try and minimise these factors (where possible) in the future?

3) Regardless of whether some of the statements made on this thread and others are true or not, and some have been hotly disputed, it's clear a section of people who seem to care deeply about the sport have a poor perception of UKA, it's staff, and it's ability to deliver what is viewed (rightly or wrongly) as it's job - to improve standards of UK athletics - especially distance running in this case. Note I am not giving an opinion as to whether the current set-up is correct or the focus of the staff is in the right areas. Whether or not UKA believe it is doing 'a good job' there is a perception that it isn't - therefore steps need to be taken to simplify communication and clarify what is happening - unfortunately (and as reflected by some posts by 'The Grand National' on here) there does seem at present to be projected a 'we know better and we're not telling you' and 'boys club' attitude to people who at the end of the day want the same thing - UK runners to improve. I don't think defensive or indeed personal attacks on people who pose questions helps with the poor image of UKA that some people have. A bit of honesty and humility can go a long way. Clear simple statments of facts & the reasons behind them and an open attitude to (constructive) debate would be start.

The Grand National wrote:

Nbody from UKA went to Fukuoka proir to the World Cross.

Nobody from UKA has been to Mombasa prior to the World Cross. Where did those allegations come from ?

The hotel the team will stay in Mombasa is allocated by IAAF, UKA have no say in the matter. It probably will not be as good as UKA would like, but they will be stuck with it.

Spencer Barden did go out to Durban for 3 days to look at track, off road running, gyms, medical facilities and hotels. Not because nobody from UK had ever been to South Africa before but because the altitude venue used by Brits was not appropriate to go straight to Mombasa, and the only other city used by Brits on a regular basis does not have enough off road running to be suitable for a cross country team.

I think part of the problem of untrustworthiness here is Mr Barden's previous employment as a thieving b'stard. How anyone can be put into such a position of responsibility with such a track record i'll never know.

Friends in high places, oh I think so!!

I would like to know who else was interviewed for the position Mr Barden has, if that is not possible due to confidentiality is it possible to ask where and when it was advertised and what the criteria was in terms of selecting who was interviewed?

It seems to me like the kind of job that numerous people would be falling over themselves to attain.

curiosity killed the cat wrote:

It seems to me like the kind of job that numerous people would be falling over themselves to attain.

Why exactly? A job where presumably you are not going to earn a massive wage, where you'll be judged by the performance of others that you have little or no control over, and where you get know-nothing tosspots on this board discussing your every move.

Let me dive into this interesting topic from the so called "deep end". I think that many people who post on here have little if any knowledge of athletics at all. To slate someone for taking a trip out here to finalise hotel plans, check suitablity of training venues and get a feel for the place is just plain stupidity-- its part of his job and was essential for us guys before we arrived.

Secondly, i want to bring to the fore the debate about how shit the team will do-- whether you are on here to f*** around, or be serious- why post comments about a team of lads doing there best to raise the standards of British endurance running. (this also goes for the lads who chose to miss the trials cos of other plans- who are also battling hard to beat the doubters). As a team, reading such lack of support only contributes to what we already know about certain sections of british athletics--- when we have a bad run- we get slated, when we run well-- the race was poorly attended-- and when we try our best, it still aint good enough for some of those on here who are mentally challenged.

On a positive note-- the lads have all trained hard since getting here, we did our final session tonight and head to the race in a positive mood, with our sights set on proving we were all worth our place on this team.

Im just going off now for my 10th pint, chased down with a benedictine short. Dinner was a pleasurable pie and chips, coupled with 5 rounds of bread and butter. The knicker bocker glory dessert only served as an appetiser for the alcohol consumption to follow long into the early hours!!

Bottoms up boys! keep up the research!

Barden has done an excellent job so far to support all the athletes he works with and is meant to work with!

Long live Spencer!

It wasn't advertised, it was given to Mr Barden.

Just like the majority of UKa jobs/selections. It's not what you know, its who you know!

Quick question.... Did anyone from UKa ask Gavin Thompson why he dropped out of the trial?? Answers on postcards please!

Hey Brits,This thread is so tired and need to go to bed,Did anyone have and idea on 12 stage road relay thats the one we are suppose to be discussing now,Cheers'

Feris Bodwan wrote:

It wasn't advertised, it was given to Mr Barden.

Just like the majority of UKa jobs/selections. It's not what you know, its who you know!

Quick question.... Did anyone from UKa ask Gavin Thompson why he dropped out of the trial?? Answers on postcards please!

I think that Gavin was directed to a UKA doctor when he dropped out, by UKA staff. So if the Doc (who was the team doc for the World Cross) who gave Gavin treatment/advice knew what was wrong with Gavin then I suspect that those people who were picking the team did as well. Is that enough ?

Did Gavin have any responsibility to tell one of the selectors what his problem was, or is it UKA's job to contact every athlete in the UK prior to selection ?

How do you know that Spencer Bardens job wasnt advertised - surely that is illegal ?

Just wondering if all the people who were so keen to abuse/slag off UKa and the World Cross team here before the race would now like to comment.

Individuals in the top 20 in 3 of the 4 races, solid performances from the Junior Boys, Junior Girls and Senior Women, and the Senior Men (who always receieve the most 'flack') exeeded expectations in 8th place, with all 8 finishing.

Just maybe on this occasion, UKa, and particularly the athletes deserve some credit for getting it right.

Or maybe (probably more likely) no-one will be brave enough to come back and eat humble pie.

Well done to all those involved with this Championship. I certainly view it as a positive step.

It is good to see the interviews on the UKA website, with athletes clearly being told to big up UKA, the warm weather training and the medical team. Apparently, if you didnt, you broke their contract, which says what they have to say to the press.

The athletes at the world cross didnt have a contract with with UKA, and I am willing to bet that none of them were asked to big up UKA - but there is a simple way to find out - ask them. A number of them read this site and some apparently posted from Durban.

Surely there is a chance that the athletes concerned did benefit from training together in a warm climate and mentioned that by way of thanks.

Mo does has a UK contract but he had his coach with him for 2 weeks before the event so was more likely to mention UKA than the others.

I would hope that Ward, Wicks and Nichols etc have enough character and integrity to speak their own minds - or are you suggesting they have become lackies of UKA overnight ?

As for the medical team - the parents of some of the juniors were in the UK medical tent helping, and I suspect that their opinions are worth slightly more than yours. I spoke to a couple of those parents and they could not praise the team medics enough.

There must have been well over 100 of us Brits in and around the course and I know that it is a day none of us will forget - but for most the first reaction wouldnt be to find fault with UKA - that makes you a special sort of person.

fair play for your comments - just a pointer though if you are going to continue to post on different threads under different names then it might help if you stop posting the same strange URL at the bottom of all your posts - it kind of gives you away....

http://UROPENSURO wrote:

fair play for your comments - just a pointer though if you are going to continue to post on different threads under different names then it might help if you stop posting the same strange URL at the bottom of all your posts - it kind of gives you away....

I don't think he's trying to hide.

- it is obvious who it is, and god knows it really is_

- jobs for the boys indeed