BEDFORD SAYS MORE MILES - BUT WHAT IF YOU WANT TO RUN BEYOND 25?

True that, double true.

Mcleod coaches his son, Rose coaches at Bristol, Jones lives in the US.

i saw bedfords training schedule on page 423 of the 4th edition of the lore of running, i know he was the world record holder in the 10k at 2730, does anyone know his best marathon time? being able to handle that immense workload and having run a 2730 10k, i would think would mean incredible marathon potential.

Bedford never ran a competitive marathon during his 'career' - he concentrated on track and cross country, with best times of around 13:16/5000m, and 27:30/10.000. He ran some road relays for his club (Shaftesbury), but do not think he ever races further than 5 miles on the road.

Bedford lacked basic speed (around 57 for a 'flat out' 400), but his strength gave him the ability to run very close to his top speed for long periods of time.

His career did not last long, because he really pushed the envelope (mileage wise) in training, with some weeks approaching 200 miles a week, most of it on the roads.

The 10.000 record came about in an interesting way. Bedford had been injured for months and months, and nobody expected the record, but all the previous work and training paid off, and the involuntary rest from the injury actually helped Bedford as it gave him an extra freshness with which to beat the world mark.

Bedford never minces his words. On once occasion Jon Brown expressed a wish to run the London Marathon in around 2:13, which made Bedford say 'why would anyone want to deliberately run that slow!' or words to that effect. Brown and Bedford had a 'falling out' at London for a couple of years with these issues and financial ones, but, fortunately, are now back on speaking terms.

I also recall how rude Bedford was to the invited Mexican runners at the Crystal Palace Grand Prix in around 1978. The Mexicans were very upset, despite having a bunch of sub. '28' minute 10.000 runners.

He is just a very honest guy in the sense that he always speaks his mind, but this can upset some people.

Ning Nang Nong wrote:

Mcleod coaches his son, Rose coaches at Bristol, Jones lives in the US.

Thanks for the career update. But what are they doing for GB runners on a wider scale? Also, I only used these three as examples, the list could have been as long as my arm.

1983 winner Mike Gratton will help anyone on the runnersworld.co.uk forum. At the moment there doesn't seem to be anyone on there taking his advice much faster than 2:45, but the offer is there to all.

Slim Jim wrote:

Ning Nang Nong wrote:

Mcleod coaches his son, Rose coaches at Bristol, Jones lives in the US.

Thanks for the career update. But what are they doing for GB runners on a wider scale? Also, I only used these three as examples, the list could have been as long as my arm.

I take your point, but also - should the onus be on former athletes to offer advice or current athletes to ask for it? Probably a bit of both, but on more than one occasion I've heard ex-internationals say that no one has ever asked them for their views on anything. Most top runners are usually quite helpful (Mike Gratton is a very good example). Gary Staines posted on here a while back offering to talk about his training and stuff but no-one took it up.

"I also recall how rude Bedford was to the invited Mexican runners at the Crystal Palace Grand Prix in around 1978. The Mexicans were very upset, despite having a bunch of sub. '28' minute 10.000 runners. "

Not sure this report is accurate:

Who exactly would be on this list?? Only a relatively small number of sub 28:00 Mexican 10,000m runners - and the date you give of 1978 must be incorrect?? Maybe 1988?

Arturo Barrios, Jesus Herrera, Martin Pitayo, Jose Gomez,Rodolfo Gomez, Mauricio Gonzalez, and Francisco Pacheco were all mid to late 1980s.

Also same era Gerardo Alcala, Rafael Zapeda, Carlos Retiz, Guillermo Serrano, and Salvador Parra were right around 28:00 to 28:30. Mexico had some serious depth back then.

1983 wrote:

1983 winner Mike Gratton will help anyone on the runnersworld.co.uk forum. At the moment there doesn't seem to be anyone on there taking his advice much faster than 2:45, but the offer is there to all.

I guess this proves a lot and maybe why they don't bother offering advice, although to be fair, how many sub 2:20 boys are buying runners world, let alone checking their website. Perhaps if Mike came onto LetsRun he'd get more requests.

At the end of the day, it's down to hard work, so I suppose there's a limit to how effective their advice can be.

mike responded to a specific request from runnerworld to answer some queries by some of the 'faster' runners using the runnersworld forums. He offered some great advice - and anecdotes - and any committed runner could learn something from him (IMHO)

Slim Jim wrote:

1983 wrote:

1983 winner Mike Gratton will help anyone on the runnersworld.co.uk forum. At the moment there doesn't seem to be anyone on there taking his advice much faster than 2:45, but the offer is there to all.

I guess this proves a lot and maybe why they don't bother offering advice, although to be fair, how many sub 2:20 boys are buying runners world, let alone checking their website. Perhaps if Mike came onto LetsRun he'd get more requests.

At the end of the day, it's down to hard work, so I suppose there's a limit to how effective their advice can be.

In the past here at LR, guys like Malmo and Hodgie-san were a lot more active in terms of giving advice. There were definitely a fair few people who appreciated that they did this. But there were an awful lot of responses from people who essentially called them old farts who haven't kept up with the latest information in exercise physiology and who just wanted to crow about how much better runners were twenty or more years ago than they are now.

I also recall that when US distance running fortunes began to slide, Frank Shorter was somewhat vocal about how people could reverse the slide and he was received by many young runners like an Arab at a Bar Mitzvah. So I can't really blame a lot of the older, once fast guys, for clamming up.

That's fair comment as long as the older, once fast guys are willing to join the debate about modern training methods, which are partly responsible for faster times.

I'd join that debate, but only to say modern training methods are responsible for slower times.

Slim Jim wrote:

Dave Bedford lays into the modern day British marathoner by saying they don't do enough miles, yet he effectively threw his career away by retiring at 25 due to injury. If you can get hold of his book you will notice that the man is a smug smart-arse.

I'm sure he has a point about marathon runners in Britain today lacking something, the stats back it up, but is Bedford really qualified to give advice.

Mike McLeod, Nick Rose, Steve Jones etc... These guys can advise today's GB distance men. Where are they?

Maybe Dave Bedford should write a book called

"How to use high-mileage training to choke big time on the track in championship races!" (maybe Ron Clarke could co-write it with him)

(and oh yeah, I should add that: Alan Webb runs ONE THIRD the mileage that Bedford ran, and could destroy him in every distance on the track. Bedford should have WORKED on his speed)

Jon Orange wrote:

That's fair comment as long as the older, once fast guys are willing to join the debate about modern training methods, which are partly responsible for faster times.

What "new" training methods? The wheel hasn't yet been reinvented.

No, but not all of the faster times run these days are due to more effective drug programs.

HRE wrote:

I'd join that debate, but only to say modern training methods are responsible for slower times.

If we can't even agree what Lydiard meant when he contradicted himself half the time, then how can we hope to not never disagree on nothing ever or even agree on anyfink?

Hansons claim that there secret to success is going back to the old timers. Greg Meyer came and spoke to their team before Boston. They praise the old Greater Boston Track Club and speak highly of many of the old timers. They claim that hard work will beat "science". I think the Brits could learn a ton from their legends.

In my opinion, the best coaches read up on the modern science, but they can see through the BS pseudoscience well enough to convince the runners they coach that if they train as well as runners in the past, they can be the runners of the present.

That includes training the mind as well as the body. Which brings us to Psycology and the minefield of Psychobabble that has to be negotiated.