You guys seem to be missing the most important part of this discussion (10.49).
You need to recruit someone that can run that time and have them move up. I bet that Johnnie Blockburger, Chris Morales-Williams, or Rai Benjamin (many more similar athletes) could all spend 3-4 years and run close to 14/29.
There is zero evidence that basically any of them will come close to running 14:00. Or even 3:50ish. Some of the fast sprinters have done 800s and pretty much all of them suck differential wise enough that make 3:50 seem like a stretch much less something like running 14:00.
nobody doubts there is some 11/22/46/1:43/3:30/13:10/27:00 type guy out there. That last .5s though in the 100 is rough. There are guys in thr 800 that have run low 45s who you expect would be close but a lot of them are like 3:40 1500m guys which suggests they are going to die by the 3k…
Yeah i reckon a speedy world class 800m runner could do both
Someone like rudisha or korir who have/had the speed could get the 10k with a change in emphasis
As another possible option, I wonder how fast a prime Noah Ngeny could have run an all-out 100m when he was in 1k world record form - his career was cut short so we don’t know what he could’ve done at longer distances (likewise, how fast of a 10k does 3:43 mile fitness get you?)
Good post. I assumed most f.a.t. 46.xx 400m men would sprint 10.5x or 10.6x 100m. Nice to see Brandon Johnson with a 10.41 100m. The training for 10.48 100m and 29-flat 10000m, in the same day would be a bit complicated. If we were to give guys three months to get it done, training would be much less complicated.
I think people overestimating the difficulty of the 10.49. That is only the 10th fastest time in D3 this year.
I think any of the world-beater 20-25 year old 800m runners in their prime would have the force production and turnover to make it happen.
exactly. A couple thousand sprinters and a mere 10 can beat it. And you expect some distance dude to run it? Not very realistic. Same way going the other way. We have HSers run 29:00 type performances. None of them are dropping 10.5s to win their league meet.
Respectfully, pro 800m runners are not just "distance dudes". Many run 4x400 legs at the international level. Isaiah Harris won the 200m and Mile in the same state meet.
I was a :49 and 1:52 nobody in D3. I beat 11.1-11.5 guys in full-rest 80m and 120m reps all the time. I ran a 22.5 200m in a meet. Any pro 800m runner would have SMOKED me.
10.49 is incredibly far from elite men's sprinting. 210th in D1. 51st in D2. 10th in D3. 23rd in NAIA, 29th in Juco.
I know what I'm talking about. You way overestimate the difficulty of the 10.49 and the training needed for talented athletes. These guys are freaks. 10.49 is not freaky.
What about current collegian Henry Hardart? He's coming off of a massive 800 PR under the WR. I can personally vouch for his endurance, and his speed workouts speak for themselves. I would say Morceli but I think he'd struggle to get under 10.5.
When Gebreselassie won the 10000M at the Sydney Olympics he ran faster in the last 200M than Cathy Freeman ran to win the 400M. If you got a Mid distance or distance runner with a phenomenal kick they could probably do it with some starts practice. Cole Hocker or Josh Kerr could do every distance greater than 200M easily. The question would be whether they could learn to sprint from a static start.
Some of the gentlemen from 1950 to 1970 were very talented.
* Does anyone know how fast Tom Courtney was: 100y, 100m, 200m, 220y, 1500m or 1 mile? He has a 45.8h 400m time.
* Does anyone know how fast was Ralph Doubell, 100y, 100m, 200m, 220y. 400m, 440y, 1500m or 1 mile? I am certain R Doubell was a faster sprinter than Jim Ryun. Doubell was willing to race elite 400m men of the era, 600 yards, indoors. Doubell wasn't embarrassed in 600 yard races against elite 400m men.
* I would likely bet against Peter Snell, f.a.t. 10.48 100m, but does anyone know his 100y, 100m, 200m, 220y, 400m and/or 440y speed?
- Courtney was reputedly fast over the 440y - around 46s - but like many 880y specialists didn't compete over other distances. He was not endurance-trained so would've struggled over the 1500/mile and upwards.
- Doubell had 400 speed with strength, which is why he was successful over the 800. However, he, too, rarely competed in events outside his event but did run the 660y and 1000y indoors, setting a world mark for the latter.
- Snell could run 22-low for the 200, which he did in training, and said 47-mid was about his limit for the 400. He never competed in distances longer than the 1500/mile but was marathon-trained so would have had better endurance than most other 800/1500 specialists.
I think people overestimating the difficulty of the 10.49. That is only the 10th fastest time in D3 this year.
I think any of the world-beater 20-25 year old 800m runners in their prime would have the force production and turnover to make it happen.
Most 800 runners wouldn't crack 10.5. The only one I think who could was Juantorena, who had a pb of 20.7 for the 200. 10.5 or below is the realm of a sprinter, not an md runner. If a md runner could beat 10.5 they could run 44 for the 400 (as Juantorena got close to.) But most guys that fast can't put two decent laps together. Being a sprinter and an md runner doesn't mix.
Good post. I assumed most f.a.t. 46.xx 400m men would sprint 10.5x or 10.6x 100m. Nice to see Brandon Johnson with a 10.41 100m. The training for 10.48 100m and 29-flat 10000m, in the same day would be a bit complicated. If we were to give guys three months to get it done, training would be much less complicated.
A sprinter who can run 46x might run 10.5, but an md runner who can run 46 mostly likely can't beat 10.5. Coe could run 46-flat (based on a relay time) and his fastest 200 was around 21.7. That means he wouldn't have been faster than around 10.8 for the 100m.
When Gebreselassie won the 10000M at the Sydney Olympics he ran faster in the last 200M than Cathy Freeman ran to win the 400M. If you got a Mid distance or distance runner with a phenomenal kick they could probably do it with some starts practice. Cole Hocker or Josh Kerr could do every distance greater than 200M easily. The question would be whether they could learn to sprint from a static start.
If Geb ran around 25 secs for the last 200 (off a flying start) he wouldn't get near the women's 200 record of 21.34 (standing start) or 10.5 for the 100m. Some of you have no idea how fast that is. It's way beyond any distance guy and virtually all md guys (except maybe Rudisha and Juantorena).
When Gebreselassie won the 10000M at the Sydney Olympics he ran faster in the last 200M than Cathy Freeman ran to win the 400M. If you got a Mid distance or distance runner with a phenomenal kick they could probably do it with some starts practice. Cole Hocker or Josh Kerr could do every distance greater than 200M easily. The question would be whether they could learn to sprint from a static start.
If Geb ran around 25 secs for the last 200 (off a flying start) he wouldn't get near the women's 200 record of 21.34 (standing start) or 10.5 for the 100m. Some of you have no idea how fast that is. It's way beyond any distance guy and virtually all md guys (except maybe Rudisha and Juantorena).
I would put Korir (44.21) and Amos (44.99) in the group that could possibly do it. I think Korir probably would. Johnson already did but was a sprinter when ran his 100m and 200m times. The runners mentioned that are best at the mile... They are not running 10.49 in the 100m.
hardart is listed for the 800 - 5k double (1 hour apart) today at the NEWMAC championships. If he's able to pull off 3rd place performances in both, I'd give him a good chance at the records. Also watch out for his compatriot Hunter Miller in the steeple today.