Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year

why can kerr acquire more speed at a far more advantaged age, and has run more 800s and done more speed oriented training in his lifetime. or are you not one of those who thinks Kerr is secretly a 1:44 runner?

congrats, that's literally Cram's point... drop the 5000's, work more on the 800's...

All his points are very grounded in solid logic.

I think it's well assumed that Jakob will struggle with the 1500m record until that 800m gets into the 1.44 flat zone (which it won't) - but I disagree with him on the mile. That record is considerably softer than the 1500m and I think he had run miles in Oslo or Silesia last season (especially the latter) he would have broken that record. The bigger issue is that if we assume a 5 year window where he would be at his peak over the shorter events (1500/M) then he's right in the middle of it now. So he really needs to get after/prioritize that mile this or next year or else it is going to close like it did for all the greats.

I think Kerr is naturally faster than Jakob. So is Wightman. Speed work helps a runner use the speed they may have; it doesn't make them faster than what they are capable of. If that were so Komen and Bekele would also have the 1500/mile records. Jakob has tremendous endurance but in the milieu of the 1500/mile he isn't fast and never will be (and that isn't a comment on his times).

Because for the 1500m he does need more speed. Because for him to break the 1500 record he needs to be right at or just under 1.50.0 at 800m (and more like 1.49.7/8 tbh) and with his current top 800m ceiling probably in the low 1.45's, even with his awesome 3000m strength, that is just too close. He's 3 tenths a lap or 2.2m (for all 3.75) off the 1500m WR - that is still considerable.

I’m not totally sure, but I suspect Jakob doesn’t agree with you (or Cram) -here is what Jakob answered in 2019 when Cram pretty much said the same as now:

vg.no

Jakob Ingebrigtsen fnyser av legendens råd: – En myte

Nils Mangelrød

LONDON (VG) Løperlegenden Steve Cram mener Jakob Ingebrigtsen burde løpe flere 800-meter for å bli bedre på 1500 meter. Men slik tankegang mener den norske 18-åringen tilhører fortiden.

Link:www.vg.no/sport/friidrett/i/1nyvqq/jak...

So near and yet so far.

you think so, but Kerr has been running for a long time. has run many more 800s than Jakob. Has run them seriously. he tried winning the british 800 champs last summer.

has never run faster 1:45.35 or something like that.

i think people underestimate jakob because of what his stride looks like.

Jakob will only prove Cram wrong when he takes the wr. Quite apart from the speed issue I have doubts that a runner with Achilles issues can take what is one of the toughest md records in the books. It's lasted a quarter of a century.

Kerr shows more finishing speed than Jakob. He may not have Jakob's endurance but he's definitely faster. But that isn't saying much. Most of the 1500 field is. Very few of Jakob's competition are slower than 1:45 over the 800.

he is faster by very slim margins. jakob has a bigger endurance advantage than speed deficit.

For me, if he can get through 800 in lets say 1:50.5, as evenly as possible. He may be able to replicate his run in Silesia and run 55.2 for the third lap for 2:45.7 and then run a final 300 close to 40.3 and hopefully just under. This is assuming almost pitch perfect pacemaking to 1200m (55.25,55.25,55.2,40.3). It requires a second on the 800m which for you, may be beyond his limit but I believe just staying consistent and getting stronger than he is now can help him get this close. Obviously this is extremely hard and takes everything to get but I just think he can 🤷

Here is the English version (Google translate) of Jakob’s answer to Cram’s views in 2019:

JAKOB INGEBRIGTSEN SNEEWS AT THE LEGEND'S ADVICE: - A MYTH
LONDON (VG) Running legend Steve Cram believes Jakob Ingebrigtsen should run more 800 meters to improve in the 1500 meters. But the Norwegian 18-year-old thinks this way of thinking belongs to the past.
On Saturday, Ingebrigtsen ran to a new Norwegian record for 5000 meters and a time of 13.02.03, after a sprint duel against "the best in the world", as father and coach Gjert Ingebrigtsen calls the winner Hagos Gebrhiwet from Ethiopia.
After 2nd place and a final round that Ingebrigtsen said went by in 53 seconds, father and coach Gjert believed that the 18-year-old will have the capacity to run down towards 12.45 in the 5000 meters in the future.
- It's very fast, but I have my goals and I still think I have a development in running, says Jakob Ingebrigtsen to VG about his father's prediction after the record run:
But running legend Steve Cram, whom VG met before the race in London, believes Ingebrigtsen should now run more 800 meters to improve on the special distance of 1,500 meters.
- It will help him to run faster in the 1500 metres, says Cram.
He set world records at both 1,500 meters and an English mile, and took World Cup gold and Olympic silver at the former distance in the 80s. Now Cram is a commentator for the BBC.
He makes it clear that he never thought that a European 18-year-old could perform at such a high level at 1500 meters, like the 3.30 races of Jakob Ingebrigtsen. But at the same time, Cram kept Ingebrigtsen's level at 800 meters when he was the same age.
- That is the next thing for him. I'm sure he can run faster in the 800m. It will also help him tactically in the 1500 meters. In championships, 1500 meters is often like an 800-meter race. You jog and then bang at the end, says Cram.
He himself had such a good time in the 800 meters as 1.42.88. It was during a period when he and the other British legends of the 80s, Sebastian Coe and Steve Ovett, were also the world's best 800m runners. Last year, Ingebrigtsen ran in 1.49.40 over the same distance.
But Jakob Ingebrigtsen completely disagrees with Steve Cram.
- I think that is a myth. There are many of the old heroes who were 800 and 1500 meter specialists. We have a different philosophy where 5,000 meters play a bigger factor, says Ingebrigtsen.

He says it makes a big difference to the training to get better at 800 meters and that it is not interesting going forward.
- People get to believe in other things. There are many good 1500m runners, I won't name names, who can't run 5000m. It would have been exciting to see what we could do in an 800 metres, but that is not the training we do. It's not just for us to line up at 800 meters and run just as fast there, says Ingebrigtsen.
He points out that he is not sure how long Cram had lasted a 5000 meters when he was among the world's best middle distance runners.
- Many call themselves experts, who say that running down against the best at 800 meters is a must in order to run fast at 1,500 meters. We want to be proof that is not true, says Ingebrigtsen.
Gjert Ingebrigtsen makes it clear that there will be no 800 meters this season for his son, who is now ranked as the world's second best middle-distance runner.
- You don't need to run fast in 800 meters to convince him that you can run fast in 1500 meters, not even Steve Cram. He has enough speed and we see here that in the end it is the endurance that determines how much acid you have when there are two rounds left. That is what determines how fast you run, says Gjert.

It's an interesting tradeoff. But as a number of posters here are saying (as is Cram), there is a level of speed that is crucial to taking the record and at this stage Jakob doesn't appear to have it. He may never. It's the price of his exceptional endurance.

El G was not an 800m runner. But I guarantee that someone who could close an Olympic 1500 final at the same speed as Jakob's best over the 800 was faster than Jakob. That's why the 1500 record may be out of Jakob's reach.

I agree. I think there has to be SOME 800 meter ability for an individual to run 3:26.00. You can't be a 1:45 guy, IMO, and run 3:26. It's too high a % of your maximum ability and lactate will accumulate too quickly. Problem is he is never going to race an 800 so we will never know ahead of time if he can run 3:26 or not.

Why would he work on the 800m? He has won Gold Medals at 5000m and even if he focused on 800m training, he probably wouldn’t make the final at that distance. Why didn’t Cram focus on the 5000m to improve his strength?

Yes, and that made Cram run more than 2.5 sec slower than Jakob + no Olympic gold…

This is why I personally have been a big fan of Jakob's training system.