With super shoes and everything, is it biologically possible for a woman?
Of course, we just had it lowered by almost 5 seconds and we only have 7.64 more to go. On the 5K, we cut nearly 11 seconds just like that since 2020. Any reasonable curve fit on those kinds of numbers would suggest that a 4 minute mile is in the offing pretty soon, quite possibly this decade or the next and certainly within most of our lifetimes.
The 1500m WR conversions have always been faster than the mile records, and have only been improved by about 3.5 seconds over 44 years.
With super shoes and everything, is it biologically possible for a woman?
Of course, we just had it lowered by almost 5 seconds and we only have 7.64 more to go. On the 5K, we cut nearly 11 seconds just like that since 2020. Any reasonable curve fit on those kinds of numbers would suggest that a 4 minute mile is in the offing pretty soon, quite possibly this decade or the next and certainly within most of our lifetimes.
Doper-Slaney improved he records by 6 seconds, so should be possible
I think just about everyone here knows your opinions about doping. What I can’t recall reading from you is if you believe any top track athlete, past or present, is clean. I’m curious what your views are on distance and sprints. By “top track athlete” I mean an Olympic champion, world champion, or someone consistently ranked in the top 5 world wide for a good length of time.
Of course, we just had it lowered by almost 5 seconds and we only have 7.64 more to go. On the 5K, we cut nearly 11 seconds just like that since 2020. Any reasonable curve fit on those kinds of numbers would suggest that a 4 minute mile is in the offing pretty soon, quite possibly this decade or the next and certainly within most of our lifetimes.
Doper-Slaney improved he records by 6 seconds, so should be possible
She ran 4:18 or thereabouts. Yes - that makes 4:00 possible.
I think just about everyone here knows your opinions about doping. What I can’t recall reading from you is if you believe any top track athlete, past or present, is clean. I’m curious what your views are on distance and sprints. By “top track athlete” I mean an Olympic champion, world champion, or someone consistently ranked in the top 5 world wide for a good length of time.
Out of the sport of T&F I’m also curious if you believe the Greg LeMond was clean. Also, any opinion on today’s top cyclists? Guys like Mathieu van der Poel, Jonas Vingegaard, Tadej Pogačar, etc. By your moniker I assume that you follow cycling.
I think just about everyone here knows your opinions about doping. What I can’t recall reading from you is if you believe any top track athlete, past or present, is clean. I’m curious what your views are on distance and sprints. By “top track athlete” I mean an Olympic champion, world champion, or someone consistently ranked in the top 5 world wide for a good length of time.
Doping is in all events: sprints, distance and field events.
I cannot be sure any top athlete in the last thirty or so years was clean. (That means I have doubts even about my fellow countryman, Nick Willis. I do however think Dame Valerie Adams was likely clean or she would have taken the record for the shot set by an E Bloc athlete in the '80's). With the prevalence of doping and opportunity I have difficulty seeing how an athlete can get to championship level today without it.
I am less sure about the '80's, although doping was required in the E Bloc and sprinting was becoming immersed in steroids. In the '70's doping - such as blood doping - was still developing in distance running (so performances were considerably slower by today's standards). In the '60's doping was still largely confined to strength-related events, like field events and weightlifting, and was undeveloped in distance running. There may have been a few individual instances of its use later in the decade by distance runners with stimulants and some steroids. Hence, their times are pedestrian by today's standards. (And yes, some of that is due to training, tracks and shoes. But not all of it.)
But today doping is simply a feature of professional sport; probably a virtual necessity to success of any kind. I can't discount that because doping is widespread and remains ahead of antidoping.
This post was edited 7 minutes after it was posted.
I think just about everyone here knows your opinions about doping. What I can’t recall reading from you is if you believe any top track athlete, past or present, is clean. I’m curious what your views are on distance and sprints. By “top track athlete” I mean an Olympic champion, world champion, or someone consistently ranked in the top 5 world wide for a good length of time.
Out of the sport of T&F I’m also curious if you believe the Greg LeMond was clean. Also, any opinion on today’s top cyclists? Guys like Mathieu van der Poel, Jonas Vingegaard, Tadej Pogačar, etc. By your moniker I assume that you follow cycling.
Actually I don't follow cycling. I simply use Armstrong as a metaphor for doping. With regard to cycling, the doping genie has long been out of the bottle; I don't think it can be put back even if its use is more restrictive than in Lance's day. The other sport I have followed apart from running has been tennis. From what I have seen in the last twenty or so years it is one of the big offenders. Their doping control is minimal. They don't confront the issue.
Of course, we just had it lowered by almost 5 seconds and we only have 7.64 more to go. On the 5K, we cut nearly 11 seconds just like that since 2020. Any reasonable curve fit on those kinds of numbers would suggest that a 4 minute mile is in the offing pretty soon, quite possibly this decade or the next and certainly within most of our lifetimes.
The 1500m WR conversions have always been faster than the mile records, and have only been improved by about 3.5 seconds over 44 years.
Speaking as a 3:49 1500 runner who trained with a number of sub-4:00 milers, there is a WORLD of difference between 3:49-3:50 and 3:41. Every sub-4:00 guy I knew was better than me at literally every aspect of running. For a woman to get to 3:41, she would have to be a completely different class of athlete. In the last 50 years, since Kazankina and Coe, the best athletes have been of a roughly equivalent level, with tiny improvements in time attributable to improvements in shoe technology, track technology, sports medicine science, and the psychological factor of chasing a specific time. In order to get there you would have to intentionally cross-breed the best genetics over the course of generations, and even then there will be a limit.
We're going to get a 1500 WR this year. 3:50 (#3 all-time) in gross conditions was worth the WR imo. We should get sub-3:49 this year. Can't see it getting lowered a ton from there but it'll be routine to start seeing some 800 splits close to 2-flat in a 15.
I remove all nuance, after reading what that the rest of you are stating, I will state clearly. No. Never. Impossible.
Before men raced sub-4 one mile, numerous men were racing sub-1:48 800m. As soon as a female races sub-1:54.5 800m, R Johnson or other posters accuse the runner of taking p.e.d.s or half man/half woman.
I gave you posters clues. Women aren't going to start racing 1:50.xx or 1:51.xx 800m. It will never happen.
As all the present women's records are doped it would take a drug of unprecedented powers to enable a woman to beat 4mins for the mile. 7 seconds (for a record that is already doped) is a huge margin to close. It won't be training or "shoes" that will do it.
You think Faith is doped? She is one of the few that I think isn’t.
Absolutely. But I'm not allowed to answer that question.