Stuck at 1600m/800m barrier (4:37/2:05)

Do 6 months of 200 mile weeks and you should crack 4.36

Um... Genuine advice please. Another thing might be too much training load so recommendations for cutting down and tapering+peaking right the last few weeks?

From my experience of coaching, you aren’t going to get a load faster this season. In order to really drop your 800 you’re going to need to incorporate some speed development next year. However for the time being try doing workouts like 4 x 400 basically all out with 10 min rest. This stuff will help build your lactate tolerance. Or something like 6 - 8 200 all out on 3-4 mins rest. At this point you just wanna sharpen up. Don’t do more than one of these sessions a week. Also I wouldn’t do more than 6 of these in a season.

Your T&F team may need you to race 3200m but your 2:05 800m is a better time than your 9:53 3200m. Are you not a top three 800m runner at your school? Is that why you believe you are a 3200m runner? You stated your 800m performances have stagnated. If you believe you are a 3200m runner, I assume you are training as a 3200m runner. Likely, your 200m & 400m development have stagnated. There is a stronger correlation 200m & 400m performances to 800m than 1600m & 3200m. If you want to truly improve, 800m, stop racing 3200m, ask to get on 4 x 400m relay if you believe you can be a top 5 400m guy at your high school. Get faster, get stronger.

Hi Nick,

You have done a great job since your sophomore year - improving 70 seconds in the 1600. Your 800 has improved 5 seconds in the past year. Those are all decent numbers.

Recommendations:

1) Do what your coach recommends the next few weeks. Don’t irritate that relationship with a month left in your HS career.

2) Spend some time on the Colorado Track Club website AFTER the season - it’s all free.

The website will cover one, of several different approaches to improve your 400 / 800m times while training as a mid distance runner.

You need to be improving your 300m time, your 3K time, and your long run ability. If your annual training plan can do those 3 things, you will find decent “success” in the 800 - 10K.

When you see the HS and college guys running 3:57 ish in the mile, please realize they are also able to run around 1:48 in the 800. Many of them (not all), with a couple attempts would be around 48-49.5 in the 400. Who knows what your ceiling is for the sport, or your best event - just make sure you are addressing the necessary components and find what works for you.

Keep up the consistent work!

RB

Idk that a 2:05 is better than 9:53. Your PBs line up decently well OP. I think it's going to be hard to get a lot faster at this point in the season but the poster is right that talked about speed development. Going to be hard to run much faster @ 1600/3200 without improving 400/800 speed. The 6x1k effort shows your strength. Reps in the 150-300 range w./ full rest would be good for you. Gotta train like an 800/miler instead of a miler/up. 8 x 200 w./ 90s rest. Cranking out good sessions like that @ 800 pace.

Looks like you only have a few weeks left so kinda late to be worrying about the 1600/800 when your goal is the 3200. Focus on peaking for the 3200. The thing is if you ran the 1600 at the last meet or meets instead of the 3200 im sure you would hit your goal times. Your 3200 PR may always be better than your 1600 time. My mile/1500 time was always weaker because i never really ran it after mid season in college for instance.

"you" are the reason i tell people have small increment (5s) or PR type goals as opposed to "i want to drop 20 seconds" insanity. you have dropped your 800 time a couple dozen seconds in 2 years, your mile more than a minute, and your 2 mile more than 3 minutes. most would see this as a blessing and huge growth. you have dropped your mile time double digit seconds this year, but your beef is it didn't drop the 20-odd seconds you set as the goal, which is ambitious in a single season once one breaks 5. take some pride and happiness in what you're doing. improving as much as you do should not be grist for some perfectionist sob story.

you may have about dried out the sponge for this season, but work on speed, compete hard (don't just groove a pace, chase someone, or sit on someone's shoulder), and break down your races for + and - when they are over. if you are aware of your race and quickly take notes then you can actually fix things in practice. if you drone through a pace and remember nothing you will sit here befuddled, list workouts and splits.

when i say "compete," chase some people, empty the gas tank, and if you have a pre-championship meet to play with, maybe try pushing the pace or identify someone 4:30 to try and stay with. pacing can be smart. pacing can also be stultifying and safe. your championship race needs to be smartest. but in the process of an ordinary schedule, you can take some risks. what's the worst that happens, you blow up? you wanted the mark, you tried.

Strength runners can run an 800m at their 400m time plus 4 seconds, compared to the OP’s 6.5. I would suggest longer intervals from 800m to 1600m, to build up his strength. 56 second speed is decent for a 3200m specialist.

The CTC website is actually one of my main sources already and overall my improvement has come from studying online and figuring out my training and learning and picking the purpose of each workout. I will admit though I've always leaned towards the endurance ones and breezed through tempos and pushed through any interval workouts with reps 400m+ but have neglected speed, only doing daily strides and stuff. I've also done a 3x(4x200m) with 1:15 rep rest and 5:00 set rest at ~29, but that was just one time ever. The majority of my work is 800m, 1k, 1600 repeats at 3200, 5k, and 10k paces. And for anything 400m it's mile pace classics like 10x400 etc.

So, have I kinda just hit my speed limit this season? My 56 second 400m PR was actually just an estimate, the best I have split in 4x4 relay was a 57-mid after racing 800 hard and pacing 1600/3200 so I figured it could've been quicker but maybe not.

If so, I think I will def move on the focus on the 3200m starting now. This weekend there's a big 3200m invitational I'm going to try to win and I'll see where it goes. I'm going to try 6x800 @ pace, with 2 days recovery in between and race on Saturday.

Just logged in back to computer - I was top 3 on my team during XC season (barely snatched final state individual qualifying spot) and currently am 3rd in every event from 800/1600/3200 to my same XC teammates. I feel like all of us are better at the 3200m but overall our strength carries well enough to be the best on the team in all of the distance events. There's no event the team really needs me to run, but consistently the 3200m tends to be the event I am most competitive in when I do try. The 9:53 was a huge tactical invitational and not really an effort until the final 800m which I closed in ~2:22, and I've only been building my base further since then. But for all other events that aren't long enough for me to run the kicks out of people or build a gap, the kickers have too much final lap leverage on me for me to be competitive.

Just chiming in to say that 2:05 is pretty objectively not better than a 9:53 - especially at the HS level. They are actually comparable - but if anything it's the opposite. 2:05 is roughly worth a 10:03.

Ran 2:28, 2:25, 2:22, 2:22, 2:20, 2:18 off of 2 minute recovery. 800m reps grinding like a 3200m and they're just seconds off of mile pace, what is it with me 😭

Also, what 3200m should I shoot for on Saturday?