I'll take the negligible performance decrease over potentially pulling my hamstring or calf, thank you very much. If stretching gets it to feel alright and loosens it up, I'm doing it. As is every good runner ever. And this is just static stretching. Literally every professionals does some form of dynamic stretching.
Your double logic is too simple. You can train too hard on singles and not give your body enough time to recover. You can also run very easy doubles and recover better than you would off of harder singles. The goal isn't to be fully recovered by your double either. As long as your progressing and recovering, it doesn't matter. I find easy doubles are often easier to manage than bigger singles, and so do many others.
To be clear, I'm familiar with the research. I don't think you should have a long static stretching routine before a race like many people might have. But to say "all stretching is bad" is just a gross simplification.
Just for clarification, I said stretching before races, not general stretching. Actually some of the research indicated that less flexible muscles don't lose energy as quickly as flexible muscles during races.
I pretty much agree with you about running doubles. However, its too easy to run too hard during the double and not give you body enough time to recover.
Yes Alex Hutchinson showed the science that stretching may reduce performance.
However for anyone who's sore from high milage, old, or both, trying to go from zero to anything more than Z1 instantly will cause you to pull something.
The case is more about being flexible does not increase performance. I highly recommend you just race a 400m on no warmup.
I may be old now but I can still run low 16s 5k to mid 2:30s for a marathon, if I warm up.
People speak about stretching as a monolith. There’s a difference between doing an easy mobility routine in the morning to offset the effects of laying in bed all night, and doing a hour long yoga workout.
Warming up and stretching are very different. Warming up before a race is a good idea.
Constantly obsessing over running form actually makes a difference.
I think the problem here is that so many people focus on form instead of training. It is one thing if you're Nico Young and you tweak something with form after already training 125 mpw and doing monster workouts. It is quite another when you're an overweight 27-year-old who studies biomechanics blogs and forces toe running for 25 mpw. It is like the corny Chris MacDougall guy. Derp - let's run for 15 minute barefoot in Central Park b/c guys who run in shoes are dumb - Derp.
I agree to a point. The ones that think they need perfect running form before they start running drive me a bit nuts. Plenty of people just need to go run and not worry so much about it.
For older coaches that is what we did back in the old days, spend a lot of time on form. Then the research started to say what they did naturally was more efficient then trying to change things. But the old coaches are stuck in their ways and keep working form before just making their athletes run more. It's kind of like the stretching before running that people are talking about in here. That's the way they did it in the 70s so some are still stuck on it and refuse to learn.
People speak about stretching as a monolith. There’s a difference between doing an easy mobility routine in the morning to offset the effects of laying in bed all night, and doing a hour long yoga workout.
Warming up and stretching are very different. Warming up before a race is a good idea.
The most common warmup that almost every distance runner does follows this format:
- Jog 10–20 minutes easy
- Dynamic stretching
- Running drills
- Strides
Dynamic stretching includes things like leg swings, Frankenstein walks, etc. Every single fast runner I've known, sprinter or marathon runner, has done some form of dynamic stretching on a regular basis.
Alternating shoes make them last longer and provide great protection due to resting the mid sole. It made perfect sense but I read a study that said it didn't make any difference.
Warming up and stretching are very different. Warming up before a race is a good idea.
The most common warmup that almost every distance runner does follows this format:
- Jog 10–20 minutes easy
- Dynamic stretching
- Running drills
- Strides
Dynamic stretching includes things like leg swings, Frankenstein walks, etc. Every single fast runner I've known, sprinter or marathon runner, has done some form of dynamic stretching on a regular basis.
Indeed.
Static stretching is the problem.
Even then it's more problematic for power athletes because it was shown to produce less topend force. Whether it would be problematic for most distance runners I'm not sure. But given how easy it is to replace any static stretch with a dynamic one, there's no need to find out.
The most common warmup that almost every distance runner does follows this format:
- Jog 10–20 minutes easy
- Dynamic stretching
- Running drills
- Strides
Dynamic stretching includes things like leg swings, Frankenstein walks, etc. Every single fast runner I've known, sprinter or marathon runner, has done some form of dynamic stretching on a regular basis.
Indeed.
Static stretching is the problem.
Even then it's more problematic for power athletes because it was shown to produce less topend force. Whether it would be problematic for most distance runners I'm not sure. But given how easy it is to replace any static stretch with a dynamic one, there's no need to find out.
Yep, I think pretty much everyone fast is on the same page. Some interesting thoughts I've had for a while. People like Olympic lifters or even gymnasts are simultaneously extremely explosive and extremely flexible. Olympic lifters might be the most powerful pound for pound athletes on earth. You see those lifters catch a snatch in a deep squat with the weight overhead? That's flexibility and power!
So, is it a matter of being flexible limits your top end power production? Or is that being flexible limits your ability to repeatedly express that top end power production?
So an Olympic lifter could potentially become a very good sprinter, for ~20m, and then they'd lose steam while a "stiffer" sprinter can keep riding the stretch-shortening cycle all the way to the finish line? Or is it something else?
I agree to a point. The ones that think they need perfect running form before they start running drive me a bit nuts. Plenty of people just need to go run and not worry so much about it.
For older coaches that is what we did back in the old days, spend a lot of time on form. Then the research started to say what they did naturally was more efficient then trying to change things. But the old coaches are stuck in their ways and keep working form before just making their athletes run more. It's kind of like the stretching before running that people are talking about in here. That's the way they did it in the 70s so some are still stuck on it and refuse to learn.
Whenever I encounter a beginner who's really into perfecting their form, I like to show them Nijel Amos in the 2012 OG 800. PED usage aside, his "awful form" worked for him.
I agree to a point. The ones that think they need perfect running form before they start running drive me a bit nuts. Plenty of people just need to go run and not worry so much about it.
For older coaches that is what we did back in the old days, spend a lot of time on form. Then the research started to say what they did naturally was more efficient then trying to change things. But the old coaches are stuck in their ways and keep working form before just making their athletes run more. It's kind of like the stretching before running that people are talking about in here. That's the way they did it in the 70s so some are still stuck on it and refuse to learn.
Whenever I encounter a beginner who's really into perfecting their form, I like to show them Nijel Amos in the 2012 OG 800. PED usage aside, his "awful form" worked for him.
Someone was worked up about heal striding and I showed them Kipchoge.
Take this with a pinch of salt but I seem to recall reading that sprinters never achieve max force production because it takes "too long". Of course we're talking in terms of extra milliseconds here. So each step is a high percentage of max force because they're looking to finding their optimum balance between stride frequency and stride length.
Whereas in the case of a powerlifter it's a single event so they are looking for that max power to all happen in one go. Likewise jumpers, throwers etc.
In terms of flexibility, Carl Lewis is said to have had terrible flexibility - could barely touch his toes. But had great range of motions when working dynamically. Something to think about
Take this with a pinch of salt but I seem to recall reading that sprinters never achieve max force production because it takes "too long". Of course we're talking in terms of extra milliseconds here. So each step is a high percentage of max force because they're looking to finding their optimum balance between stride frequency and stride length.
Whereas in the case of a powerlifter it's a single event so they are looking for that max power to all happen in one go. Likewise jumpers, throwers etc.
In terms of flexibility, Carl Lewis is said to have had terrible flexibility - could barely touch his toes. But had great range of motions when working dynamically. Something to think about
That makes sense. Just to nitpick, a powerlifter is not really all that powerful, they're forceful. It's a silly name for a sport. An Olympic lifter is very powerful.
That makes sense. Just to nitpick, a powerlifter is not really all that powerful, they're forceful. It's a silly name for a sport. An Olympic lifter is very powerful.
They tried calling it "Forcelifting" but everyone kept expecting them to pull a spacecraft out of a swamp
Check the research on stretching before races, it hurts your performance!
Are you sure? Wasn't the study done on elite 60-meter sprinters, immediately before a race?
I have to question the applicability for people who are NON-ELITE 4-5x/week runners (aka 'hobby joggers'), especially weekend warrior types.
For myself, as long as I stretch consistently, I stay injury-free.
If I don't stretch, I come up with a nagging, take-a-week-off injury. Simple as that.
Been this way for 20 years. I'm sticking with what works for me.
Only static over-stretching will harm max power output. It's more so that static stretching is less worthwhile than dynamic stretching. Before sprinting, muscle temperature and blood flow needs to be high.
I don’t believe everyone needs to be relaxing their shoulders. Probably depends on the individual like a lot of this stuff but I feel like I breathe easier with a certain posture. If I let my shoulders melt, it’s uncomfortable. So I keep the posture that feels right to me.
Reminds of the myth going around that when you’re catching your breath, you shouldn’t bend over with your hands on your knees. For decades coaches have been saying “stand up straight and put your hands on your head” and now current research shows the bend forward with hands on knees posture is actually effective.
Turns out that people can feel what feels better pretty easily and naturally do what’s best.
When you look up research or someone links you research, always look for the results of individuals in the study, not the whole population and not just the conclusion. If there were individual exceptions observed in the study, and you have good reason to think you’re an exception too, then you probably are.
Results prior age 20 counts. Or is a good predictor. In running its all about patience n building that running body slowly n consistently. Too many have run too hard. Or been pushed too hard . Especially in the early 2000s the training really sucked. Unfortunately for me.