Explain the explosion of fast 3200 times to me

And a 5th reason . . . role models:

(5a) Ritz-Webb-Hall, 2000-2001 . . . took elite hs running out of the dark ages which had predominated since the mid-1980s . . . a period when training was just too conservative, both in terms of mileage and intensity . . . we found out Ritz & Hall were touching 100-mile weeks with occasional intense hill/track sessions . . . while Webb was half the mileage but was an interval track monster who had several years of intense swimming training to build upon . . . this trio became the role models for grade school and hs boys which lasts to this day . . .

(5b) Jordan Hasay, 2005-2009 . . . arguably the most popular US hs distance runner ever, boy or girl . . . with the unmistakable long flowing blond locks . . . emerged onto the running scene at a time when the internet was roughly a decade old and running oriented websites and technology had matured to accommodate video file postings and live streaming (first live Youtube event in 2008) . . . her 10th place finish in the 1500 at the 2008 Oly Trials cemented her legendary status . . . Jordan became the ultimate role model for every pre-teen and teenage runner but especially for young girls . . . running fans came to her races just to see her run . . . Mary Cain and others have since broken all her records . . . but have to wonder how much long we would have had to wait if there had been no Jordan Hasay . . .

did super shoes become available 2021 track season?

Jakob. He is the inspiration.

Yes. I did a simple analysis several months back here based on World Athletics data that shows how rock steady the times were at the 1000th performer level from 2012 to right up until super spikes became available, and noticed there was a obvious step change. The average amount of (presumed) super spike benefit changed at different paces (less at faster paces), so I created some before-after comparisons based on the before/after superspike changes in pace. For the 2 mile the old 9:08 is the new 8:59, while 9:27 is the new 9:40. I'd say based on the step change, that's benefit from the super spikes alone. I didn't look at high school data - maybe the results would be a bit different if someone did that.

2 mile
oldspikes/superspikes/benefit
8:02.8 7:58.6 4.2
8:10.8 8:06.2 4.6
8:18.9 8:13.8 5.1
8:26.9 8:21.4 5.6
8:35.0 8:28.9 6.1
8:43.0 8:36.3 6.7
8:51.1 8:43.7 7.4
8:59.1 8:51.0 8.1
9:07.2 8:58.2 9.0
9:15.2 9:05.4 9.8
9:23.3 9:12.4 10.8
9:31.3 9:19.4 11.9
9:39.4 9:26.3 13.1

That's from post #35 in the thread below. Read from the beginning of that thread if you want to see how I got that.

This thread is of interest to me as someone who came of age during the 1970s running "boom" on the heels of Shorter, Pre, Bill Rodgers, Ryun and all those guys.

There were fast guys back then. My class (nationally) had several guys who were 8:40ish in the 2 mile. But they were doing it blindly. Nobody had ever heard of "V02 max", "threshold training", or "running economy" this side of Jack Daniels and a hand full of exercise physiologists. The only scientific word we knew was "lactic acid". Furthermore, most coaches had no clue, as almost all coaches came out of the big three...football, basketball, baseball and where I lived.... wrestling.

Now even the high school kids have a fundamental understanding of physiology and training principles... and I dare say most coaches do. Today kids have coaches that were actually runners who themselves were actually coached by runners.

Bump

dmaa, caffeine, dmha, addy, etc

The shoes and social media are the biggest 2. The shoes help, there's no denying that but I still think times would've gotten a lot faster without them. From what I have seen, the rise of social media and coaching services online have really propelled high school distance running. I graduated high school 10 years ago, and while we did have all the social medias that are out right now back in 2014, they were not like they are today. I loved running in high school, but I had no idea about how to train properly and I unfortunately did not discover letsrun till college (I ran D1 and was happy with my prs and am still Pring into my late 20s so it all worked out) When I was in high school, I thought the kids running 4:20 and faster were living breathing and eating the sport. I thought in order to run times like that you needed to dedicate your life to training. Now kids are seeing what other kids are doing on Strava and Instagram, and other socials and they realize that it's not that complicated to run fast if you are doing the proper training. A lot of kids are also now not running for their high school team and using private services. The best 4 runners in my state are running unattached this year and have just been racing college meets and big invites. When I was in high school this did not happen very often.

Our program greatly benefited from the pandemic and I imagine that many others did as well. How our program was helped:

Head Coach of 30+ years and with outdated training philosophy retired. Younger coach was hired from outside of the school system and he implemented updated concepts like threshold running, more mileage, and sustainable speed workouts.

Bored athletes looking to kill time with all of the closures started training together and running 50+ miles per week. When track and XC resumed, they were light years ahead thanks to a long period of aerobic development. Today, our top boys and girls know that higher mileage is necessary to win. No one wastes the off seasons playing video games and getting fat. That is frowned upon in our new team culture.

Athletic.net and MileSplit inform us and our athletes how well our competition around the state is performing. No more surprises or guessing.

The new coach started a middle school program that feeds talented kids into our high school. We now have frosh athletes already invested in the sport and eager to train at higher levels. We no longer rely on soccer castoffs and kids joining a no cut sport to populate our JV bench.

If COVID had not canceled the 2020 seasons and caused our old coach to retire, we would still be mediocre and hoping to get a stud or two from time-to-time. Now we have a decent pipeline thanks to fresh thinking.

I’m sure no one would take the time to research it, but I’d be interested in tracking the improvement in times when you exclude any races like Arcadia where there are big heats of fast kids gathered together racing expressly for time. Races like that have become their own form of science experiment.

I’m sure there are still improvements in average races, but how much?

Exactly when they started becoming widely available. I’ve always said the super shoes were worth about a second per lap. They make that much difference, but it also depends on the “efficiency” of the runner.

I can also believe that kids started doing more training during Covid with the boredom and time flexibility associated with lockdowns/remote school. I agree with the guy who said a college scholarship is more valuable than a job as well.

But I also believe the training is much better today, no doubt. Kids aren’t just flogging themselves with intervals and afraid to run 60-75 mpw with a “long” run to be truly great as preps.

How do shoes account for dramatic improvements from 2023 to 2024 or even 2022 to 2024?

I think there has been a significant mentality shift. When I was in high school, I was pretty serious about running, as was most of my team. We were incredibly dominant in the area, and were very competitive on the state and national level. I was never the top runner on the team and I ran 4:18 and got a D1 scholarship. We were very much an outlier, to the point where other teams would make fun of us for doing a workout after a race, or running over the summer.

In college, we had a lot of high schoolers come for recruiting visits. 90% of them didn't really care much about running or know anything about it. They didn't do more than 40 mpw, and they had no idea the purpose of one workout or another. Natural talent was enough to take them to 4:15 or so, and that was good enough for them. They couldn't name a single pro or collegiate runner.

It's completely different when I talk to my old high school coach now. A local program that was never competitive now implements a 10-day cycle and plans the whole season around it. They recently produced a 1:52 guy, a 4:18 guy, and a 4:42 girl. A completely different team dethroned my high school at the local conference championship for the first time in a decade, and they've already put a guy under 9:00 for 3200. They're doing 60-70 mpw with team doubles in the morning on workout days.

To me, that's a microcosm of the whole high school scene. So many more high schools and high schoolers are serious than ever before. I think COVID was a big part of this, a lot of people started running during lockdown because there was nothing else they could do, but I think the internet and particularly Strava (which was not nearly as big pre-COVID) also factor in. Couple that with higher expectations - 4:15/9:10 not being "good enough" anymore - and you have the current boom.

$250 spring shoes. Good for 4 seconds per mile.

What state you in?

No. You are way off. We have just as many kids working or not working as in the past. And as for minimum wage, it has at least tripled in the past 20 years. Diets are probably worse now than in the past. Partying and drinking is a function of which kids are out for the team and who they might be friends with. Depending on which kids are on the team, they can influence the others one way or another. I think you are way off on all accounts based on my experiences in high school in the late 90s and now coaching for 20 years.

The internet and how it is being used are the biggest changes. We saw a first explosion in distance running in the early 2000s from the internet spreading information (letsrun, dyestat, etc.). Then there has been another big explosion with the combination of things like strava and super shoes.