Explain the explosion of fast 3200 times to me

Strava, Shoes, Arcadia and the internet

Clearly you are not older. As a product of the 1990s and 2000s let me dispel some rumors.

1) we knew what others were doing. I had friends in other towns and colleges. We even went and trained with them. The tnf list serv was popular and letsrun has been around for over 20y. So the we had no I formation and strava is completely bunk. I ran 4:24 in high school and there was zero chance I was running faster given my training. You think knowing someone was running close to 4:00 would have made me run faster? It didn’t (mime stember was knocking on the door… didn’t help me run faster)

2) the shoes are clearly a big difference

3) the biggest difference is the training. We ran 15-25mpw and busted 200s and 400s in the 1990s. Kids don’t do that now. We didn’t do threshold runs in high school. That was reserved for college.

I think the original posters point proves it’s the training. My guess is the coach has been around for 30 years and is still coaching like it’s the 1990s. That’s why there hasn’t been a big profession. I also bet those kids on the OPs sons team have strava and the internet and Arcadia as an option. Guess what, it’s not helping because the training probably sucks.

It’s the training stupid.

I was pretty good in high school almost 15ish years ago and here is my take.

Yes shoes and training are better but I think the real power of the internet is in organizing races.

Let’s face it, you used to run your local meets in track, maybe 1-2 invites, then state and MAYBE a post season meet if you were near sub9. Now meets are better organized, kids travel more for both cross and track. Going out of state for cross was almost unheard of!

Desert Twilight, Woodbridge, etc.

So more kids have more chances to run fast. Look at that Southlake meet in Texas! Nothing special besides all the best kids meet up that weekend and throw down

Strava for motivation reasons. Kids go on there and post their races and get lots of praise if they run well. They make friends with other runners, etc.

Shoes for performance reasons. Shoes help.

Arcadia for ideal performance conditions.

Internet for training reasons.

Shoes. Anyone who says otherwise has their head in the sand.

- All kids use strava

- All wear super shoes

- All can’t get into Arcadia

- All have the internet

It’s the training. OP’s kid I’m sure has the same 4 things you’re saying are the difference yet they are only marginally better then the 1990s. That means it’s not those 4 things (ok… maybe a little due to shoes, which he addressed) and the rest is training.

I believe it's more talented kids. Internet exposure and parents getting kids involved earlier is useful. I think we should also thank the explosion of soccer over the last 2 decades. More kids running and transition to training at a higher level. Just my 2 cents

I just don’t understand how the most obvious answer that is fact is not being suggested. What sun 9 kids are running 15-25mpw now? Approximately 0. Kids are running faster because of training. I bet if you take every kid sub last year 90% run more than 40mpw on average and probably 50% run upwards of 60-70 at points during the season. I bet nearly all do threshold runs as their primary workout bs 0% in the 1990s.

Everything else leads to improvement on the margin.

I took over for my HS coach 3 years ago. He was there for 30 years.

Our entire district has seen a turnover of coaches. Out of 16 schools, 2 have coaches over the age of 40. When I was in school, our district was 10 teams (lots of schools moved up in classification), and every one of those schools had coaches that were born in the 1960's at the latest. Our district went from it taking 10:00 to qualify for the state meet to taking sub 9:30.

There's a lot of new training philosophy that made it into our area with the changes in stewardship. For starters, my kids don't run 20 miles per week like we used to when we were in school. We do a lot of work at threshold, run hill reps, actually strength train, etc. Most guys I raced against in high school either did 200's or 400's weekly, and 20 minute tempos. Everyone kind of had shoddy training, and the good guys could still make it work.

Strava which motivate kids and leads them to train better, even if their own coach is inept has helped.

Nobody mentions the ability to wear watches during races. That's gotta help kids with pacing. It's also easy for a kid to understand what a recovery run is or what a tempo should be when they have the data on their wrist.

That's correct, it's the training. All the other things help slightly, but can't explain the significant decrease in times from the 1990's.

As I recall we could wear watches in the 1990s. I think it’s all training. What do these kids do now?

No, Marrs - it's not just the shoes.

I second Danicmic1's opinion above. Both my boys played soccer for both of the city's soccer clubs. I coached them, and ref'd them. When they transitioned to XC (one after the other, on their own) in High School, I knew majority of the boys and girls in the entire team from before. Most of them played soccer as young kids. 3 practices a week, then a game or two in the weekend, from the age of 7 till 14.

That's not a bad plan for raising XC runners.

Social media also exposed the kids to the fact that getting nationally ranked in XC/track is easier than doing the same in soccer or football or basketball, hence the decision to switch is now much easier (for the non-super-talented soccer players).

Also, more cities all over the US now host multiple 5K/10K fundraisers over the year, and many kids get to run in those fun events from a very young age. My elder son was 6 when he practiced and ran his first 10K!

THEY'RE ALL JUICING - DOPING IS RAMPANT!!! PLUS, SUPER SHOES!!!

I figured I'd just save someone the time and post that for them.

Seriously though - it's the enormous number of resources, race opportunities, shared training methods, equipment, etc - equipment helps, but it's only one aspect of the evolution. To paraphrase Roger Waters before he went fully insane, 'people think Pink Floyd is a product of the equipment, but if you hand a man a Les Paul guitar, he doesn't automatically become Eric Clapton and when you hand a man modern equipment, he doesn't just become us.'

I was in HS during the late 90s at the tail end of the dark ages.

Some factors beyond the internet, Strava, super shoes, gps watches, and the 21st century HS invite circuit to consider

1) Work- When I was in HS, a lot of HS athletes had part time server, retail, or ag jobs. I think a serious HS athlete with any sort of real job is very rare these days. That's understandable as minimum wage has hardly budged while the value of a college scholarship has skyrocketed. It's a lot easier to get 60 miles a week when you don't have to bus tables at Pizza Hut until 11 PM or sweep out your uncle's feed lot at 5AM.

2) Diet- Fast food and soda ruled the day in the 80s and 90s. Protein shakes and supplements were stuff only the body builder and maybe football o-line guys paid attention to. Now, I think most serious HS runners follow pretty solid diets.

3)High school drinking, particularly among "upper middle class" kids, is generally down. Cell phones and even the self snitching aspect of social media has cut back on old fashioned road blast parties.

cdc.gov

Current and Binge Drinking Among High School Students ...

CDCMMWR

Excessive drinking accounted for approximately 4,300 deaths each year among persons aged

Link:www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6618a...

Regarding the middle to lower ranks of current HS programs. The bad programs are still bad. If I had to guess, most high schools do NOT have a sub 4:30 miler or sub 10:00 2 miler in any given year. In suburban big school leagues, those sort of runners are a dime a dozen but most high schools are not affluent well funded schools with experienced distance coaches.

In NYC, we couldn't wear watches until a few years ago. I wondered if this new rule has helped runners.

Of course it's training but what has led to better training? For my son and his team (with a coach who doesn't give any workouts) Strava has helped motivate them and push them. In the past they rarely had any kid under 20 in a 5k, 11:30 in the 3200, or 5:20 in the 1600. In his first week of practice he didn’t do anything longer than a 20 minute jog. These kids are all working now and as they see what good runners are doing they understand what it takes to be good.

Number of high school boys going sub 9 by year. Looks like the explosion occurred post Covid. Is this a result of many persons taking up running during Covid due to gyms being clsoed thus children became more interested in running due to parents running or for themselves taking up running during Covid?

2023 -- 98

2022 -- 79

2021 -- 73

2020 -- 10

2019 -- 28

2018 -- 33

2017-- 39

2015 -- 55

2014 --38

2013 -- 34

I only scanned through the replies but, as an old guy who ran under 9:10 (but not under 9:00) in the mid-80s who has coached HS and have my kids who ran solidly in HS, my view as to why there are so many sub-9:00s now:

(1) shoes, shoes and shoes

(2) way more fast and competitive races.

(3) Related to #2, faster surfaces. I was invited to and ran Arcadia 3200 (when there was only an evening of invitational races, not multi days like now) and was shocked when I flew in and discovered upon arrival that it was a cinder track! Couldn't believe it. I ran most of my 3200s on cinder but the top meets were all-weather tracks in those days. But not Arcadia.

(4) Training and internet go hand in hand. Training is better and I think the internet is why, since there is more knowledge available now. My training sucked -- 45 miles per week with tons of crazy intervals -- as compared to what it would look like now.

(5) "Overage" kids. It almost seems the norm now for kids to be 19 when they graduate. Or maybe it's 50-50 versus 18. In may day it was unheard of. We were all 17 and 18 when we graduated. So many boys get held back to start kindergarten now that I'm almost surprised when a top runner is the "traditional" 18 at graduation.