Incredibly hard to label somebody a "world class PT". Look into Gait Happens and David Grey. Currently following DGI's foot program and it is making a different in returning to run after plantar heel pain. Connecting the foot, soleus and hip seem to make sense. If your hip is collapsing, you are lacking internal rotation on one end and a think plenty have commented that it looks like you're lacking strength at the other end as well. Lastly, four months is not long enough. Return to run, gradually, regardless of how your video is looking, and see how your body is reacting.
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bloviating wrote:
Incredibly hard to label somebody a "world class PT". Look into Gait Happens and David Grey. Currently following DGI's foot program and it is making a different in returning to run after plantar heel pain. Connecting the foot, soleus and hip seem to make sense. If your hip is collapsing, you are lacking internal rotation on one end and a think plenty have commented that it looks like you're lacking strength at the other end as well. Lastly, four months is not long enough. Return to run, gradually, regardless of how your video is looking, and see how your body is reacting.
I will return to running, but I'm just so frustrated that nothing seemed to work. I know 4 months is not enough, but I expected to see SOME changes. It seemed impossible to me from the very beginning that strength training alone magically is going to fix my pelvic drop collapse mid run. This cannot work like this, right? I feel like I need gait retraining or whatever this is to see changes, not gym time alone
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Certain muscles may get weak because they are not being used at the right time. But I agree with you about gait. If gait needs to change, it's like ditching a bad habit. Need frequent repeated reminders to get back on track. In fact, better to only run when you are doing it the way you want to do it, so you are only reinforcing good habit. Lots of suggestions in the thread. Try barefoot? Short hills? Can you feel it if your hips start dipping? Is it better when you are going faster? I know my form changes when I run slow, and it's not always good. Or attach some jingle bells to your waist to tell you if the hips are dipping? It's getting closer to that season. )
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If you're near Oregon (Eugene), I'd recommend Chris Whetstine. The guy's amazing.
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medellin wrote:
bloviating wrote:
Incredibly hard to label somebody a "world class PT". Look into Gait Happens and David Grey. Currently following DGI's foot program and it is making a different in returning to run after plantar heel pain. Connecting the foot, soleus and hip seem to make sense. If your hip is collapsing, you are lacking internal rotation on one end and a think plenty have commented that it looks like you're lacking strength at the other end as well. Lastly, four months is not long enough. Return to run, gradually, regardless of how your video is looking, and see how your body is reacting.
I will return to running, but I'm just so frustrated that nothing seemed to work. I know 4 months is not enough, but I expected to see SOME changes. It seemed impossible to me from the very beginning that strength training alone magically is going to fix my pelvic drop collapse mid run. This cannot work like this, right? I feel like I need gait retraining or whatever this is to see changes, not gym time alone
Are you sure it's the running form that is causing your injuries? I think my form is far worst than yours. And many people in local running clubs have it even worst. I don't really see any problem with your form. It's not suppose to be perfect or completely symmetrical. You can see even in elites they have imbalances.
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Jae Grunke's video series have fixed or improves all kinds of things for me:
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My 2 cents:
I think you could work on your hip and IT band flexibility and strength, that is, work on rotating your hip outward to order to prevent it rotating inward and collapsing down. Work on the right leg more than the left, seems more of a problem that side - though its hard to tell. You look to be leaning a bit on your left because of it. Continuing to run without addressing this issue just makes it worse.
As your develop the strength and flexibility to rotate your hip/thigh outward, your knees and feet will corresponding straighten up and fall more in line with the direction of your running - eliminating your knew pain and the need for orthotics (which are usually just a fix for issues higher up the leg). And you will go faster.
I have had problems worse than yours and have done this and it helped immensely. The idea is try push you hips in the direction of bow leggedness, especially on the side that is least inclined to go that way.
I developed my own more targeted versions of these two kind of exercises
eg. Hip stretch: find a ledge about belly button height or just below. Lift one foot on it, with 90 degree bend in your leg try to push knee down as so flat as possible (be careful).
Something like this though standing up straighter and in situation that allows you to flex that knee a low as possible, ie below horrizontal:
For strength work I use a pretty thick stretching band, using thicker bands to progressively add resistance to to rotating the leg outward. Hook the band over and between both knees, lie on the floor on your side, knees 90 degrees. Find a way to anchor the bottom knee down with a heavy weight or stick under small at the bottom of your couch or something. Then lift and rotate the knee of the top leg (this is mostly going to be your right knee I think) upward/outward as far you can while keeping your ankles together. Hope that all makes sense.
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I reckon you're overthinking it.
Go to any fun run or road race and 80% of the participants will have worse form and far quirkier biomechanics.
Sure, you overpronate a little bit, and there does seem to be quite a bit of width between where each foots strikes the ground (my suspicion is that this is due to a low cadence, but it's hard to tell in slow motion).
If you're not injured now, then don't stress about it. Keep doing your strengthening routine, and maybe buy some shoes with a bit more stability and slightly more cushioning (for easy days).
All runners have weaknesses in their mechanics that they constantly have to work on in order to stay injury free. There will never be a time where everything will be 100% sound, and you'll be able to handle infinite amounts of training.
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OP, was this a ruse to get LR to look at your junk? With reference to your vids
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Adoi wrote:
I reckon you're overthinking it.
Go to any fun run or road race and 80% of the participants will have worse form and far quirkier biomechanics.
If you're not injured now, then don't stress about it. Keep doing your strengthening routine, and maybe buy some shoes with a bit more stability and slightly more cushioning (for easy days).
What this guy said, but I'd give the opposite advice re: shoes. If you're only running on a treadmill, get yourself a pair of Skinners. They're like sock-shoes and allow you to run 'barefoot' without trashing the skin on your feet. I use them on treadmills all the time, so no durability issues. Running without random wedges of foam under your feet will hopefully allow you to understand what your 'natural' running form is as well as improve your proprioception. More importantly, it will hopefully allow you to 'let go' of all of these preconceptions in your head about what causes your running niggles. As a few people above have pointed out, there are a tonne of runners out there running fast and injury-free with much worse running form than you have.
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Lol, he's ignoring every comment that suggests he might be clueless about his form. Keep filming yourself buddy...
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Adoi wrote:
I reckon you're overthinking it.
Go to any fun run or road race and 80% of the participants will have worse form and far quirkier biomechanics.
Sure, you overpronate a little bit, and there does seem to be quite a bit of width between where each foots strikes the ground (my suspicion is that this is due to a low cadence, but it's hard to tell in slow motion).
If you're not injured now, then don't stress about it. Keep doing your strengthening routine, and maybe buy some shoes with a bit more stability and slightly more cushioning (for easy days).
All runners have weaknesses in their mechanics that they constantly have to work on in order to stay injury free. There will never be a time where everything will be 100% sound, and you'll be able to handle infinite amounts of training.
Respectfully, I cannot agree with this. I keep getting injured over and over again and it must be the form / imbalances / gait / whatever the fck that is doing this to me. I know some people stay injury free with bad biomechanics, but they might have stronger joints, ligaments etc. I never did sports in my life, started running 3 years ago when I was like 28. I'm not running insane number of MPW, I do everything 'by the book', and injuries are still there. So I need to fix my deficiencies before getting back there again.
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asker of pertinent questions wrote:
Lol, he's ignoring every comment that suggests he might be clueless about his form. Keep filming yourself buddy...
Meaning what? I'm not ignoring anything. Do you mean my form is so bad or not the reason of injuries?
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medellin wrote:
asker of pertinent questions wrote:
Lol, he's ignoring every comment that suggests he might be clueless about his form. Keep filming yourself buddy...
Meaning what? I'm not ignoring anything. Do you mean my form is so bad or not the reason of injuries?
Meaning that you wouldn't know what good form is even if hit you in the face.
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Sean Schniederjan's short ebooks with simple exercises. Quadratus Lumborum Fixed was very helpful for me. Others with hips in title, Conquor Your Uneven Hips, Weaponized Hips, Cure Tight Hips Anywhere.
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asker of pertinent questions wrote:
medellin wrote:
Meaning what? I'm not ignoring anything. Do you mean my form is so bad or not the reason of injuries?
Meaning that you wouldn't know what good form is even if hit you in the face.
Then how about you explain something to me instead of being snarky? You clearly know more than I do,.
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What I see is a lot of hip flexion. I'm in a similar situation, did gait retraining for over a year with 2 different PT's, constant ankle injuries and foot pain that never resolves despite a million soleus eccentrics and side lying leg lifts and all the PT in the world.
My advice is mobilize your hip flexors. You need more hip extension. You can see that your pelvis is moved backwards in relation to your landing point and your chest. In other words, your pelvis has moved backwards in relation to your center of gravity because you cannot extend your hips adequately. This means as you run faster you must get mobility from the rotation (hip drop) in your pelvis instead of the hip flexors, and speed from the calves instead of the glutes, and things get quite irritated and overloaded.
I'm not saying sit in a hip flexor stretch for 5 minutes every night, I'm saying mobilize. Try from the 2:00 mark in this video:Focus on being able to squeeze the glute in extension, try to hit this andYou need way more hip extension. The good news is it's very easy to fix. Specifically on the couch stretch, I would practically guarantee that you will find this quite difficult and an area for improvement
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(link)
The hips stay behind the center of gravity by quite a bit throughout the entire stride, and you never reach true hip extension
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medellin wrote:
Guys -- I'm desperate and about to quit running, because for the love of god I cannot fix my hip drop / pelvic drop (on both sides).
All my injuries come from it, my hips drop when feet touch the ground, feet then move to the outside and the whole movement is flawed - see video here:I went to multiple physios, and recently got an actual good one (used to train national athlete runners), so she knows her stuff. She got me on exercise routine to train glute med / min, fix movement pattern etc. I stopped running completely to heal and fix this once for all.
I did all of this religiously for nearly 4 months with physio, saw improvement in the gym (better stability, better glute feel, etc).Yet, I recorded myself again - there is absolutely ZERO progress when it comes to running. See the video above. Zero improvement.
Anyone who fixed their hip drop - what worked for you? I'm becoming helpless and thinking of just quitting running for all, if I can't fix it with world class physio doing apparently everything correct, then how on earth can I make it work?
You need to stop running in slow motion first of all! That's kind of a joke but in a way I'm serious. Real running isn't in slow motion, your legs move a lot faster. At least they should. Some people have this sort of slow motion idea of running they get from watching slow motion video clips. You need to stop that and start thinking more of the rhythm of it. Running with higher cadence sorts out some form issues because, running 180 spm for example, whatever you do it has to be 3 times/second. Your body just doesn't have time to do anything too crazy if it has to do it 3+ times every second.
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Because of your fixation on form (minimizes what's going on with your body and promises an easy fix) you're ignoring the obvious questions. What you call poor form is the body compensating for something that appears during strenuous exercise. Only fixing the poor form is compensating for a compensation. What's causing the intractable poor form? Why, when, and where is the form causing problems?
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