Ethiopia and Kenya have prioritized the roads over the track because that is where the money is. Podiums of all the big marathons and half marathons are solidly E. African. Back in the days of Bekele and Geb, E. Africans would start on the track and move to the marathon after establishing themselves on the track. Now, they just go straight to the roads. This is not to say that the Ethiopians and Kenyans who are on the track are second rate. Kipyegon is the best ever at 15/5. But the talent pool is much more shallow on the track than ever before.
But for the rest of the world, the opposite is true. The track is still a priority and the marathon is for later in your career.
Lol. They prioritized the roads because there wasn’t any testing there. Kenya wasn’t even bothering to test road athletes. You can’t have a real conversation about why without first addressing the biggest reason. Doping.
Interesting when this kind of coupling happens in East Africa, the more successful the parents are at running, the less likely the kids will end up running professionally. They won't need the money and will lack grit.
I hope this doesn’t happen to the children of Tirunesh Dibaba and Sileshi Sihine. I’m patiently waiting for one of their kids to grow up and annihilate world records.
How many of them are US citizens? I know the first was born in the US but am not sure about the 2nd (or any others).
In 2015, she gave birth to a boy in the US, making him a US citizen. She's recently had child #2 but I haven't seen any mention of where he was born. Anyone know?https://www.instagram.com/p/B7Y93igHVgG/?utm_source=ig_embed
Ethiopia and Kenya have prioritized the roads over the track because that is where the money is. Podiums of all the big marathons and half marathons are solidly E. African. Back in the days of Bekele and Geb, E. Africans would start on the track and move to the marathon after establishing themselves on the track. Now, they just go straight to the roads. This is not to say that the Ethiopians and Kenyans who are on the track are second rate. Kipyegon is the best ever at 15/5. But the talent pool is much more shallow on the track than ever before.
But for the rest of the world, the opposite is true. The track is still a priority and the marathon is for later in your career.
^^This.
I think you’re right on the money. It’s obvious when you look at big time marathon podiums. For that matter, even smaller road races with the prize purse.
Kenyan depth really fell off on the track. Ethiopia and Uganda are strong, but for whatever reason those nations don't produce as many 1500 runners, so now the 15 is dominated by western-based runners. Not sure whether they are actually faster or if the shoes just allow former 3:31 guys to run 3:29 now.
Improved drug testing in Kenya and elsewhere is a factor, especially in the last couple years.
U.S. and European training has improved substantially, including at the youth level.
There's also associative mating, at least in the U.S. People who are into running marry a partner who is also into running. They then create a family environment and lifestyle conducive to running for their children.
You nutcases like to exaggerate Kenya's dominance of distance races at worlds for your convenience, when the truth is is far from the case. The fact is, if we're talking strictly distance, Kenya hasn't had any world champions in 20 years give or take. The last Kenyan to win the 5000m was Benjamin Limo in 2005, and the last Kenyan to win the 10,000m was Charles Kamathi in 2001 (!). It is highly likely that the next Kenyan world champions champions will have been born after 2005. Think about it. Yet Kenya continues to have deeper fields than all other countries, including Ethiopia, for both events. It's just that the best distance guys have chosen to go to the roads and skip track all together.
The 1500m was dominated by Asbel Kiprop for almost a decade and the 800m was always a different kettle of fish with Europeans over the years such as Pierre-Ambroise Bosse, Adam Kzchot, Amel Tuka, Andre Bucher, Yuri Borzakovskiy and Nils Schumann always in the mix. Kenya continues to lead the world in depth even in the years they don't win.
The only event where Kenya has been denied gold that used to be considered in the bag is the steeple, due to two Africans in El Bakkali and Girma in the last couple of years. Even that doesn't represent a true shift because Kenya still leads in depth though Ethiopia (not Scotland or Norway) is catching up.
The fact remains, improved drug testing hasn't affected Kenya's standing in any way. Dips in form are cyclical similar to the drought male Jamaican sprinters are currently experiencing.
This post was edited 12 minutes after it was posted.
Also, I've been on this site long enough to know every year like clockwork, someone declares the death of Kenyan dominance. You should all go back and read the posts when Team USA beat Kenya at the 2013 XC Worlds. And someone dug up the old thread about Kipchoge beating El G and Bekele in 2003. Apparently, even then, the Kenyans were being called "washed up".
Kenyan depth really fell off on the track. Ethiopia and Uganda are strong, but for whatever reason those nations don't produce as many 1500 runners, so now the 15 is dominated by western-based runners. Not sure whether they are actually faster or if the shoes just allow former 3:31 guys to run 3:29 now.
Kenya's depth hasn't fallen. That would be clear if worlds allowed more than 3 entries per event. Ethiopia has the best 5000m team of any country, but has never produced a decent 1500m runner. Uganda has no depth, it's the same two very talented runners over the last four years. It's like calling the UK and Norway strong because of Mo Farah and Jakob Ingebrigtsen. Kenya and Ethiopia will continue to throw new runners your way every year, and that won't change.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
Some of it is innate ability. Jakob has always had that type of Michael Jordan drive. a fearlessness. Also Gjert Ingebrigtsen tried to harness that competitive drive in all of his sons. There is an episode of Team Ingebrigtsen. Episode 1 at the 27 minute mark, Philip was 10 and he confronted his sons about their goals to greatness. It was the most incredible thing but also imagine that pressure to preform as a 7 to 11 year old child. Martin chafed under that pressure. (). Jakob excelled under it. His father taught him not to be afraid of Africans or anyone and Jakob started beating the best Africans by the time he was 17. Remember the U20 World Championships Tampere 2018 when he beat both Kiplimo and Barega in the 5,000, Barega who at the time was a 12:43 5k runner, but Jakob beat him anyway. He has faced world class competition since he was 15 and was even in the senior world championships as a 16 year old in the steeplechase.
Barega didn´t run his 12:43 5000m PB BEFORE the U20 WC 5000m final. He ran his time in the end of August in 2018 about 1.5 month after the U20 final. But he was already a 12:55 man in the U20 final (this time run in 2017).
Just skimmed through the article and it's interesting to see RoJo call Ingebrigtsen one of Letsrun's "own" even though I'm pretty sure over 95% of the regular posters here are American. This reminds me of the days when this board would root for Christophe Lemaitre over American sprinters and perhaps indicative of the fact Yared Nuguse, though American born, won't ignite the same excitement.
Disappointed, though not surprised, at the tone being set by a founder of the only viable running forum. Just like with Elon Musk's Twitter, an alternative can't emerge soon enough.
So sick of this take. There IS without ANY doubt an amazing and unmatched talent pool in Kenya. Go there and tell me otherwise. Is there doping, yes, but so too most places. It's not the only reason they are good. Such a ridiculous take.
You nutcases like to exaggerate Kenya's dominance of distance races at worlds for your convenience, when the truth is is far from the case. The fact is, if we're talking strictly distance, Kenya hasn't had any world champions in 20 years give or take. The last Kenyan to win the 5000m was Benjamin Limo in 2005, and the last Kenyan to win the 10,000m was Charles Kamathi in 2001 (!).
Yes, anyone not accounting for the movement to the roads in the 5-10,000 cohort is missing a key point. Kenya's best 5,000-10,000 group run on the roads frequently with a few exclusively (Simiyu Ebenyo, Sawe, Kandie, Mateiko, Kipkorir, Kibet, Kamworor) or are Japan-based (Krop, Kibet, Mburu, many more) to receive more support etc. Some as you can see are both. A lot of them become exceptional Half/Full Marathoners.
You addressed the steeple well, and it seems to be in a state of transition with Kipruto out of the picture and two all-timers from other countries. But Kenya will likely have at least 2 guys in sub-8:05 shape next year, and as many as 4.
The crux of the matter (when it comes to Kenya) is the 1500, where as Jon Gault correctly pointed out on the Podcast, the African dominance comes down to a singular athlete (Morceli, El Guerrouj, Kiprop). You could toss Tim in here if you want to toss out Manangoi as he would've won in 2017 assuredly in that case. With Tim on the decline since his injuries began in late 2020, there has been a void and it's been great for the sport that athletes from many countries have stepped into it — Great Britain, Norway, Spain, USA, Kenya. But Kenya had 3 guys at 3:30.3 or faster this year, which is historically good just lacking the in-their-prime superstar. That might be Reynold in a couple of years.
For the 5,000/10,000, it is mostly on Ethiopia and also Uganda's guys inability to stay healthy. While Ethiopia's in a talent boom for guys able to blast Diamond Leagues in Aregawi, Haile Bekele and Kejelcha, these are some of the worst tactical 5,000m runners we've seen. Barega is the only guy you trust at all to perform in a championship setting.
Since the 1968 Olympics a major advantage for Africans was living in high altitude and running from a very early age and competing internationally from a young age. They built their aerobic systems and increased read blood cells since they were elementary age. In the 70's and 80's they went to American Colleges to compete, but from the 90's on the all go pro and compete against the best in the world. Many Africans also were very good very young. Selemon Barega ran a 12:43 5,000 at 18, Eluid Kipchoge and Ismael Kirui won 5,000 world championships at 18. Jakob, thanks to his father patterned their training and existence after the Africans. Jakob was basically running right out of the womb and he has an ultra competitive mindset which is innate. He like the Africans also ran internationally very early, running in the World Championship in the steeplechase at 16. He didn't fear anyone including Africans, he beat the 12:43 Baraga and Kiplimo both in the U20 2018 World Champ 5,000 and like Africans he was great at a very young age. He also does all the training, altitude training threshold, etc. He was built to win and he has that combination of speed and endurance that serves him well regardless of the competition.
You keep mentioning Jakob beating Barega and Kiplimo at U20 and I just remembered he didn't even win that race. One of the guys that beat him, Stanley Mburu has been out with injury all season but won silver in Eugene over 10,000m.