People can argue with their keyboards all day. But the only people that have shown, that they can legitimately challenge the world record are Salwa Eid Naser and Shaunae Miller Uibo. No one cares about what ifs unless, you've actually run times, that can make you a legitimate threat to a record.
People often forget that not all doping is created equal. Koch and Kratochilova were able to go full-throttle without any risk of getting caught. Today's dopers have to microdose and time their cycles correctly to avoid detection. The difference between the two is greater than the improvements in track quality. It's possible that Sydney could break the 400 record in the next few years. Juiced or not, we've simply never seen a talent like her before. But barring a shoe tech breakthrough in the 800, I don't think we'll see 1:53 from a non-DSD woman anytime soon. Athing was the best shot, but her window may already be closed. We'll see.
She wasn't banned for doping, she was banned for whereabouts failures. I don't know whether she was doping or not but I will say that it is a nightmare to fill in that form if you are not comfortable with the language.
As far as I remember one of the failures was due to a flight being rescheduled and she texted her agent to update ADAMS and he did not update ADAMS. The other involved the testers repeatedly knocking on the wrong door at her apartment complex. The arbitration process is on the World Athletics site or somewhere similar. I don't know if she is doping or not. She may well use PEDs .
I think Nigerians understand English well enough to fill in a form.
People often forget that not all doping is created equal. Koch and Kratochilova were able to go full-throttle without any risk of getting caught. Today's dopers have to microdose and time their cycles correctly to avoid detection. The difference between the two is greater than the improvements in track quality. It's possible that Sydney could break the 400 record in the next few years. Juiced or not, we've simply never seen a talent like her before. But barring a shoe tech breakthrough in the 800, I don't think we'll see 1:53 from a non-DSD woman anytime soon. Athing was the best shot, but her window may already be closed. We'll see.
There are no elite women competing today anywhere near 400m &/or 800m w.r. Let's see women sprint f.a.t. 47.8 or 47.9 before we discuss new possible 400m w.r. holder. Let's see 1:53.5 or 1:53.6 before we discuss a possible new 800m w.r.
in all honestly i don’t think anyone will ever break either record. i think sub 1:54 will happen in the next 5 years and sub 48 will happen in the next decade but they will never be broken unless a talent unlike any other arises.
let’s go down the list.
mu: i think she will run 1:53 one day but she doesn’t strike me as the kind of runner to have sub 48 wheels. 48 low at the peak of her career.
sml: very low 48s. i think she will break the AR this year.
wilson: incredible talent. quite frankly i think she has the talent to go under 48 one day. i mean, look at her progression for goodness sakes. 52.05 in high school -> 52ish at tennessee -> 50.05 at arkansas -> 49.13 at arkansas. that’s 3 seconds in 4 years. how much lower can she go in the next 10?
mboma: obviously not allowed to run but i just want to point out that she would be under 47.5 by now if she still ran the 400, and probably would have broken 21 at some point in her career if WA didn’t put those new rules out this year.
Insane to think that this is possible, but consider the tracks on which those records were set--hardly ideal for 400m, and especially 800m.
These new tracks are super nice. Yeah I know they were doped out of their minds, but when I watch especially Kratochvilova, I can't help but think that s/he would have gone much faster on a bouncy new track.
You'll see. The 800 might be farther off, but the 400 is ready to be challenged, maybe by someone like Naser, or one of the fast crop of current American women.
We have already seen the 100 and 200 records under threat, the 400 and 800 are now ripe.
I think Mu could break the WR in the 800M if she was 100% in on training and racing. She is already the Olympic and World Champion, so the only thing left is the WR.
However she is in LA LA land now and their are way too many distractions there along with the fact that she wants to be eventually be a Model.
I don't think it's going to be Sydney M-L, she's just not fast enough over 200 meters to run a 47. Go back and watch Koch's world record on youtube, she goes through the 200 meter mark in about 22.2 seconds, that's .2 seconds faster than Sydney's PR for the 200. It's hard to say because Sydney competes so rarely that we never get a really good idea of what her speed really is, but there's nothing in her history that indicates that she's capable of the sub 11 or sub 22 100/200 speed she would need to go after Koch's record and if she did have that kind of speed, Kersee would certainly have her running the open 400 instead of the 400H. It's going to take another woman who can run the 200 in 21.7 or faster and that's a very short list of women, only a few are actually competing right now. Shericka Jackson or Gabby Thomas seem like the most likely candidates currently competing or Abby Steiner if she gets a little bit faster. For me Shericka Jackson seems like the only current woman that has the tools to go after this record.
This post was edited 11 minutes after it was posted.
OK so we have K and K, who used superior amounts of dope, and who set massive WR's on inferior tracks with inferior kit.
Now we inarguably have better tracks and somewhat better kit.
What I'm thinking about is TALENT. Does anyone here believe that K and K just happened to have an incredibly historic level of talent? I don't. I just don't see it. So what about someone with way more talent, and a better track and kit? Like Mu, for instance?
Or someone who is close in all respects, maybe like Naser?
Look at what happened in the men's 100, 200m, 400m, 400mH, and 800m. Look at what is happening in the women's 100 and 200m and 400mH. Why should the women's 400 and 800m be left out?
You could make some analogy like maybe Borzov or Wells or Mennea were using. OK let's take Mennea, an admitted user. 19.72 at altitude stood for a while, I think until Ackbar hit 19.66. Taking a look at him, no way Mennea had a stratospheric level of 200m talent. His use got him to an altitude-assisted time that nobody could touch, and there were some great 200m guys around. IMO Lewis would have broken it had he not windmilled in celebration in his 19.75 or whatever the time was.
But now we look back on it, and consider the apparent talent level of guys who have beaten the 19.72 mark, guys like Gatlin, Gay, Blake, Bolt, Dix, ADG, Fredericks, etc. Yeah a lot of those guys used, but they also beat 19.72 because they had talent superior to Mennea's.
Watching the way people run/sprint, I can't see Kratochvilova as having a huge amount of innate talent. Look at Mu's fluidity compared to Krato's chop. Krato was 100% "strength", which comes from use. I know women are higher responders than are men, but can Krato's record be that much greater than Mennea's? And Mennea's was altitude-assisted.
I can't see it. Yeah I know many have come along, and nobody has beaten them--but it's time. We have the tracks. We have the talent. We have Hans, who is apparently now "working with" Kerley. We have Wilson. We have the W400mH record destroyed. We have Naser back. We have greats from other events, like SML, Mu, etc. giving the 400 a shot, meaning good competition.
IF FloJo's 100 and 200 are under threat, then K & K's 400 and 800 should be under similar threat, maybe even more so.
* That should say Semenya is banned from competing in the 800m
The selective ban is awful and political. C S, not banned for taking p.e.d.s. Ban is basically because natural T level is too high. If C S' T-level was too high, why only ban C S in C S' three best events: 400/800/1500? C S had a natural T level too high but C S was allowed by Coe to compete in javelin, shotput and hammer throw if C S wished. That's ridiculous.
Biological males are now banned in ALL female events. So take your factually incorrect rant somewhere else.
Insane to think that this is possible, but consider the tracks on which those records were set--hardly ideal for 400m, and especially 800m.
These new tracks are super nice. Yeah I know they were doped out of their minds, but when I watch especially Kratochvilova, I can't help but think that s/he would have gone much faster on a bouncy new track.
Newsflash - Bouncy tracks do not help anywhere near as much as huge amounts of steroids.
Thats not true .todays athletes are twice as muscled as those in the past,they look twice as freakish,and theyre not micro dosing at all.Theyre still full throttle juicing,and getting away with it because a lot of them are protected,and allowed to get away with it.Sport is a business,and drugs are part of that.And no, sydney is not more naturally talented than marita,and will never break her record.she doesnt have her leg speed,or top speed endurance.
I think marita and jarmila had to have an extraordinary amount of natural talent,especially marita.marita ran 47.60,and jarmila ran 47.99 and 1.53.28,which a woman cant do unless shes talented,no matter how many drugs shes on.Apparently jarmila was on dianabol,stromba and blood doping,marita probably blood doped,and used turinabol.jarmila looked like a man,marita not so much.theres no question jarmila was on large amounts of drugs,but the talent,and dedication still had to be there.
She wasn't banned for doping, she was banned for whereabouts failures. I don't know whether she was doping or not but I will say that it is a nightmare to fill in that form if you are not comfortable with the language.
As far as I remember one of the failures was due to a flight being rescheduled and she texted her agent to update ADAMS and he did not update ADAMS. The other involved the testers repeatedly knocking on the wrong door at her apartment complex. The arbitration process is on the World Athletics site or somewhere similar. I don't know if she is doping or not. She may well use PEDs .
There is no accident to three whereabouts failures. No "excuses" were accepted. It is a doper avoiding testers - which is why it is treated as a doping violation. Sure, she doped.
Yeah, there can be an accident to three whereabouts failures and it has happened A LOT, not just with regard to one athlete. Have you actually read the full report? That they tested her the very next day with regard to the second missed test? That she passed 14 tests that season? I am speaking purely with regard to the testing process not presence of PEDs. That the same happened again - that she made herself available the next day (actually within 12 hours this time). Those are two of the whereabouts failures.
(i) On 23 January 2020, in the afternoon, she called her Technical Manager Mr Righi to inform him that she would be travelling to Lagos on the same night, to reach Bahrain on the following day and that she would be providing him with the address of the Hotel in Lagos later on. (ii) She travelled by car and reached Lagos at night; when she got a “booking hotel” she sent the relevant address to Mr Righi; however, Mr Righi did not see her messages since (i) he was asleep, there being a “difference of 2 hours between Nigeria and Bahrain” and (ii) he was sick. (iii) Thereafter, she was “terrified” since she had lost her internet connection during the trip to Lagos and thus could not contact anyone (take into consideration that a lot of these areas have imperfect coverage). Therefore, when she reached the hotel in Lagos she “slept directly”. (iv) On the following morning, she found a missed call from an unknown number and called it; a DCO replied stating that he had been to the hotel in Abuja; she explained the situation and specified that she was available for testing in Lagos. (v) When Mr Righi saw the Athlete’s messages, he updated her Whereabouts Information indicating the address in Lagos and a new timeslot between 13:00 and 14:00; he suggested that she stay at the hotel in order to be available for testing. (vi) The Athlete stayed at the hotel in Lagos until 16:00 but nobody came to test her
On 16 April 2020, Mr Righi sent some further explanations for the Athlete’s 24 January Missed Test, pointing out that:
The Athlete sent him a text via WhatsApp on 23 January 2020 at 15:45 Nigerian time, saying “I’m going to Lagos today”; however, she had no internet connection and, thus, he received such message only at 2:25 Bahraini time, along with the address of the Continental Hotel in Lagos (“she saw that she hasn’t internet and her message is hold, then she calls me to inform me for her trip from Abuja to Lagos then Bahrain, that’s why I received (this whatsapp message at 2:25 AM on the day of 24th with another messages: when she got internet)”). (ii) He only saw the messages on the morning of 24 January 2020; he tried to contact the Athlete but she was disconnected (he later found out that she was asleep, after a tiring trip by car from Abuja to Lagos); he then proceeded to update the Athlete’s Whereabouts Information and moved the 60-minute timeslot from 6:00-7:00 to 13:00- 14:00; the Athlete sent him some further texts later in the afternoon, in which she blamed him for what happened and asked him why he did not update her Whereabouts Information; Mr Righi then called her and explained to her why he did not see her messages; he also told her that he had updated her Whereabouts Information and set a new timeslot from 13:00 to 14:00 and advised that she should remain in the hotel until 16:00.
There is a reason why the World Athletics Disciplinary Tribunal determined that she had not committed an ADRV with regard to the alleged filing failure (i.e. she had always entered 964 and when updated typed 954, basically it appears to be a typo that was then corrected).
I think that she uses PEDs, and the above decision was overturned by CAS, but there is a reason why the tribunal came to that decision.
Also, I feel like a lot of people don't appreciate the issues with regard to ADAMS. Can you fill in ADAMS in your third language? While moving around constantly but having to update it every day to reflect where you are? I know I would struggle to navigate it in say Arabic (which writes right to left, not left to right amongst the many issues people will encounter).
I think she uses PEDs and I made that clear but these things need to be done correctly - and I think a lot of the time people do not realise how SOME of the whereabouts failures come about when people are travelling all of the time. It's easy to say 'oh, set it at 6-7am at your home address' but when you are talking about international athletes in competition it does not work like that.
I don't know why you clowns brought C S into a 400m & 800mw.r. discussion. C S was like a decent D3 level 400m& 800m male, never capable of sub-49 &/or sub-1:54. All the fuss for nothing.
can legitimately challenge the world record are Salwa Eid Naser and Shaunae Miller Uibo.
wulfy wrote:
As far as I remember one of the failures was due to a flight being rescheduled and she texted her agent to update ADAMS and he did not update ADAMS.
I thought so but Salwa is very slow this year unfortunately. She should have started with fast ~50 at at least 50.50 at Doha DL or a really good other meet somewhere, but she ran a very slow time in Santiago lately (Fiordaliza Cofil with whom she trains was very slow too). Looks like she didn't train too much during suspension.
Salwa Eid Naser 🇧🇭 competed at the Santiago Grand Prix, finishing 2nd in the women's 400m with 52.24s. Martina Weil 🇨🇱 was winner in 51.83s. pic.twitter.com/gFItpFhleO
Also in January 2020, when travelling overland after her plane was cancelled, she did not reach the Nigerian capital Abuja but only Lagos, Bahraini coach, her third-party in communication who handled her ADAMS database account, failed to update her whereabouts details sleeping.
I think Nigerians understand English well enough to fill in a form.
Are you serious? All Nigerians? Only 60 million of 230 million Nigerians speak English. Nigerians whose first language is Igbo, Yoruba, Hausa, creole languages etc? They have between 500 - 1000 languages.
Yeah English is used as a bridge but it is often not the first language, at all, nowhere close. English is used so people with different first languages can communicate. It isn't spoken everywhere, far from it.
Also, I said that it was a nightmare to fill in ADAMS if you are not comfortable with the language. It is, and that is a massive issue.