Boulami tests positive...

mzungu wrote:

the word amongst the moroccans is that boulami has been on the outs with the moroccan federation for some time. one athlete went as far as to say that "brahim should know the federation doesn't have his back - on anything." this was a couple of months ago. i'm not about to question the validity of the result - i've been waiting for this one, but the timing of the announcement is a little funny. still, positive is positive, and props to whoever decided to break the story. US federation take note.

mzungu

Just curious if your saying that (1)Boulami tests positive and the only reason it gets out is because the Moroccan Federation didn't do it's due diligence in covering it up or

(2) he didn't test positive and the Moroccans put it out there as if he did?

i'm not "saying" either took place. i'm "suggesting" that maybe the federation was a little trigger happy in breaking the story. the iaaf's official statement leans that direction too.

as far as leghzaoui - absolutely correct in saying that it wouldn't be too hard to conceal, so i'm all for testing her.

now let's all sit back and wait on that "b" sample. vipam's next contest?

Does anyone have any statistical data on the accuracy of these tests? Let's just say, for example, that these tests are 95% accurate. Also, let's just speculate that 10% of athletes tested have illegal substances in their systems. In a group of 1000 people tested, this is how the breakdown would work:

95 will test positive and are on drugs

5 will test negative and are on drugs

45 will test positive and are not on drugs

855 will test negative and are not on drugs

With these numbers (I'm sure not too accurate, but just to give you an idea), the probability that Boulami registered a false positive is 45/140, or over %30. Keep in mind too that false positives generally occur at a higher rate than false negatives.

In today's political climate, Muslim athletes are perfect targets to be used as "examples". If Boulami is guilty, he has done no more than the Kenyans and Ethiopians have been doing for years. They are able to use the "PC" attitudes of most of those in charge (and location in some cases) to get away with doing what athletes in most other parts of the world are nailed for. One could say the possess protective coloring, as so many Westerners have been brainwashed into thinking that to criticize blacks is racist. Sure, many will whine that the Kenyans are pristine, Geb smiles all the time, he would never ... blah, blah, blah. Take a look at the men behind the runners. Dr. Rosa, fled cycling during a big doping invenstigation, turns up working with the Kenyans, and lo and behold, they develop armies of world class performers. Hermens? King of the dopers in his day.

all i have to say is that with all this dopeing (Ali Said 2000 sliver in the 5000 at eh olymipics and teh WC)(Morriot or however you say his name 2x World Cross and Europian records 3000-10K) and now the Steeple chase it really make me sad to realize that our sport is getting so dirty. that nothing is pure anymore and i amy never get to be where i want to be cause i have to compete against dopers. i honestly think a lot more people are on drugs than we realize, like that wetmore article a few days ago. most of the world i think since about 80-85 has been using drugs and for the most part left the US behind.

Jos Rosa wrote:

Dr. Rosa, fled cycling during a big doping invenstigation, turns up working with the Kenyans, and lo and behold, they develop armies of world class performers. Hermens? King of the dopers in his day.

By all means, enlighten us with a history lesson and expand.

I agree with the other Jason, I was in Zurich THIS year, after running in the u/23 1500 race, and agree it was one of the most amazing things I have ever seen on a track. The crowd (understandably) was going ballistic, and so was I - it was awesome. I also sat about 2 metres away from him in the athletes hotel dining room after the race, and was even pretty buzzed out about that. It makes me wonder why I even bother doing it all - do I really have a chance when I am older to figure at World Championships, Olympics etc? - of course hes not the only one - just dumb enough to be caught. Boulami - you are a piece of shit, go to hell and burn.

kartelite wrote:

Does anyone have any statistical data on the accuracy of these tests? Let's just say, for example, that these tests are 95% accurate. Also, let's just speculate that 10% of athletes tested have illegal substances in their systems. In a group of 1000 people tested, this is how the breakdown would work:

95 will test positive and are on drugs

5 will test negative and are on drugs

45 will test positive and are not on drugs

855 will test negative and are not on drugs

With these numbers (I'm sure not too accurate, but just to give you an idea), the probability that Boulami registered a false positive is 45/140, or over %30. Keep in mind too that false positives generally occur at a higher rate than false negatives.

kartelite -

Thank you for pointing this out.

You're one of the few in here who can see the hypocrisy of the testing procedures.

I do not know all the facts, but Rosa's cycling group was busted during the tour in the early 90's for all kinds of drugs and he left the sport.

Reappearing in 1997 to coach the Kenyans, the Rift Valley runners subsequently showed SHOCKING world record improvements on the track.

If it tweets like a bird, flies like a bird, and looks like a bird, it is proabably a bird.

Boulami as usual claims he didn't take EPO. What if he is correct and the B sample is found to be clean? What has this done to his reputation amongst competitors and fans? Will we see Kenya?s runners in the stands in Athens holding up sign that say Boulami is a cheat. As pointed out earlier I find it very suspicious that his association released this info before the B sample was tested.

there was no drug use? Can a man run under 3:30, 7:30, 8:00, 13:00 & 27:00 without drugs? At what point do we draw a line in the sand & say there is no way this could be without meds? Are the current WRs, any of them drug free times?

i find it hard to understand some of your responses. while i am extremely upset by the finding that Boulami is using EPO it still has not been proven. there is still a need to make sure the B test is also positive. as stated before these tests are never 100% accurate.

i also find it extremely disapointing that someone would actually post something as blatently idiotic as calling anyone a dirty muslim. i think you could at least show a little more class than that.

i am also sick and tired of all this speculation. sure there are cheats who have tested positive. punish them, severely, take their worlds records and lifetime achievements away. if that is what it takes to get a drug free sport than i support that but leave out aimless speculations. just because someone is from the same country as a busted athlete does not mean that they are guilty of doping.

by the sycotic logic that has been displayed by some on this post you could call into question many other athletes. Lance Armstrong, sure he has been tested but who is to say he has his own special way of not getting caught. he has won the hardest sporting event in the world four times and has shown that he can compete with anyone no matter how the race unfolds. same goes for paula radcliff. maybe she is just so confident in her doping techniques that she invites open tests knowing they won't show a thing. dare i say it even the great alan webb is probably doping. his 3:53 last year is far superior to anything he ran this year. maybe he had to come clean so he could pass college drug tests and when he didn't perform like last year he decided that he needed to go back to taking the drugs and had to quit school for that. my point, until people have tested positive they and their records ARE PERCECTELY LEGIT!.

The very nature of athletics lends itself to be one that can not and DOES NOT follow the same rules of the US judicial system. In this sport YOU ARE GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT. THAT is why we test. The IAAF doesn't only test those marks that are "suspicious." NO ONE is above suspicion, hence, once again, the reason for testing everyone. EVERYONE is a suspect. We are proving innocence in our tests, not guilt. Think of it THAT way. It is sad, but very true.

Concerned with Q? Or are you in general in reply? I asked what would the records be without the use of drugs plain & simple? Or what is believable anymore?

Rosa was under investigation in the mid-80's. His riders were found to be dirty, as were those from other teams. He jumped out of cycling and into coaching the Kenyans in '86, not '97. Within 18 months, the Kenyans had a veritable army of world class runners. As the other person mentioned, the Kenyans and Ethiopians are able to use location and unfortunately race as shields from criticism and testing. There is a very anti-Arab mentality in Europe right now (admittedly, some of it deserved with the level of murder, robbery and rape committed by immigrants of Arab background throughout the continent) and that is no doubt contributing to those being caught as uniformly Arabic. The Moroccans are no more dirty than the Kenyans, or the Ethiopians for that matter. The other post mentioned Hermens. In the 70's he was a hack, then all of a sudden started breaking long distance records (20k, 1 hr, etc.) after consulting with individuals believed to be experimenting with steroids and blood doping. I agree with the earlier post, "if it walks like a duck ..." the sport is very dirty, and some of the dirt has unfairly robbed Europeans and Americans of the confidence to reach their potentials, because they can generally be tested and held accountable at any time, unlike those from the "dark continent".

Yes, I was there in Brussels in 2000 and watched the duel between Mourhit and Lalafi, both running 12;49. I had serious questions about the integrity of their performances then, but the following year in Brussels in 2001 I was just amazed at both ElGuerrouj and Boulami.

Brahim, you disapoint me. IT WAS ALL A LIE.

Jason

So in some people's mind.

some Moroccans are dirty ?¨all Morroco are dirty ?¨?@all Black people and Muslim are dirty ?¨The entire sports is dirty(but white are clean somehow) ,and they cried 'they can't believe anything(except their peope?)!'

Wow.it's fun .

Molfin, the Moroccans are dirty, as are a lot of other pro athletes of all sports, racial, religous and soci-economic classes.

Maybe they are just a little more stupid than the rest becasue they get caught.

Whether these tests are valid is something that's bothered me for some time. The IAAF and IOC are under heavy pressure to do something -- anything -- about doping, and I worry that they might resort to tests that haven't been adequately validated. Before a test is used, validation studies of it are supposed to be published in peer-reviewed journals. Maybe someone can point me to one, but I haven't found any references to published validation studies of the EPO test.And why are the labs allowed to announce a positive based only on the results of the A test? Why not wait until the B test results are available or the athlete declines the B test? You'd think they would have learned from the Yegorova case.

kartelite wrote:

Does anyone have any statistical data on the accuracy of these tests? Let's just say, for example, that these tests are 95% accurate. Also, let's just speculate that 10% of athletes tested have illegal substances in their systems. In a group of 1000 people tested, this is how the breakdown would work:

95 will test positive and are on drugs

5 will test negative and are on drugs

45 will test positive and are not on drugs

855 will test negative and are not on drugs

With these numbers (I'm sure not too accurate, but just to give you an idea), the probability that Boulami registered a false positive is 45/140, or over %30. Keep in mind too that false positives generally occur at a higher rate than false negatives.