Hi. I didn't get any bites on this thread really so ended up throwing something together myself based on general internet research. Would love any feedback folks have on this plan. This takes me out to mid-late July so it is quite long.
Ideally you would race much more. Shorter races you just need to race. See Joe Rubio's 1500m training plan (think it's still on running warehouse). But, good luck with that race density once you get out of school system in US. At least you have the twilight races to do. Good luck and be careful with the calves...
It’s been a while since I did mid-distance training, but I’d caution you that the above workout seems borderline too hard or even impossible for many runners. That’s not to say a hard 6x600 w/ 2’ rest isn’t a good workout, but I just wouldn’t be married to the idea that it’ll be at your max 1500 race pace.
apologies for flaking on you hhw. gave it a lot of thought and realized (remembered) that online coaching pretty much sucks compared to in-person coaching.
glad to see you keeping on with it though.
a couple of the thoughts i'd had:
1. get used to warming up longer than you think you really need to whenever you're going to do very fast reps; basically older we get the longer the warmup needed.
2. i'd been thinking about your actual races and the timing of workouts around them. given most (several at least) of the races are 2 weeks apart i would propose the hardest workout between races should come about 3-5 days after a race and thus 9-11 days before the next one. not sure if that's problematic due to the fact 3-5 days after a race will fall on a weekday/workday.
3. if you have access to terrain where there is a mild almost false-flat downhill of 1-2% where you can easily get up to speed and sort of float right into an uphill where you can do those 10s or so near all-out efforts. the uphills are nice because the impact is significantly lower, but if you start them from a stop it changes the whole dynamic and gears it a bit more towards starting strength.
4. consider doing some of your strides with a more loping gait. not quite bounding, but lower cadence than what is most efficient. sort of like old-man plyos, with the goal being to duplicate your 800m race-pace stride length, but not quite at race-pace cadence.
5. tendons and connective tissue remodel notoriously slow, which is why a stress fracture is often better than tendonitis. point being, you're prob going to need a solid 6 months or so of progressive speed, plyos etc. to really feel bouncy again. like a cake that can't be baked twice as fast at double the heat, you'll enjoy it a lot more if your patient on that front; not that you sound anything but that.
apologies for flaking on you hhw. gave it a lot of thought and realized (remembered) that online coaching pretty much sucks compared to in-person coaching.
glad to see you keeping on with it though.
a couple of the thoughts i'd had:
1. get used to warming up longer than you think you really need to whenever you're going to do very fast reps; basically older we get the longer the warmup needed.
2. i'd been thinking about your actual races and the timing of workouts around them. given most (several at least) of the races are 2 weeks apart i would propose the hardest workout between races should come about 3-5 days after a race and thus 9-11 days before the next one. not sure if that's problematic due to the fact 3-5 days after a race will fall on a weekday/workday.
3. if you have access to terrain where there is a mild almost false-flat downhill of 1-2% where you can easily get up to speed and sort of float right into an uphill where you can do those 10s or so near all-out efforts. the uphills are nice because the impact is significantly lower, but if you start them from a stop it changes the whole dynamic and gears it a bit more towards starting strength.
4. consider doing some of your strides with a more loping gait. not quite bounding, but lower cadence than what is most efficient. sort of like old-man plyos, with the goal being to duplicate your 800m race-pace stride length, but not quite at race-pace cadence.
5. tendons and connective tissue remodel notoriously slow, which is why a stress fracture is often better than tendonitis. point being, you're prob going to need a solid 6 months or so of progressive speed, plyos etc. to really feel bouncy again. like a cake that can't be baked twice as fast at double the heat, you'll enjoy it a lot more if your patient on that front; not that you sound anything but that.
Thanks not a rook and no worries.
As for 2, will take this into account. Week days are actually easier for me. Better to play hookie from work than parenting.
For 3, I have the perfect hill.
For 4, will give that a try. Have been pretty cognizant of not going full throttle and focusing primarily on form and stuff. Will add this suggestion.
For 5, ya I feel like I have some easy gains left but it’ll take a bit to really switch over to faster stuff. Will be interesting to see how things progress.
Happy with my week. Feeling much faster. Pretty stoked about the 100s I did today. Haven’t felt that natural sprinting in a LONG time. Debating a time trial next Friday at 600 or 1200 before heading off on vacation Saturday.
M - 6 @ 7:14
T - 9.5 as 3 up + 7x1000 @ LT w/ 75s off + 4’ off + 4x200 w/ 75s off 3:32/3:30/3:27/3:29/3:25/3:24/3:18 + 31/32/31/30
W - 6 @ 7:28 Th - 5.5 @ 7:15 + 7x10s hill sprints.
Fr - 7 as 3 up + 8x300 @ 1500 down to 1000 w/ 75s off + 4’ off + 2x200 @ 800 48/50/48/48/49/48/48/46 + 30/29
Sa - 9 @ 7:36 Su - 4 as 2 up + 7x100 as 30m accelerate + 40m hard + 30m coast. 12.7-13.1. Felt fast.
Great week. I never regret doing a TT, even if it flops, it is data I can use to progress, plus it is truly race-specific training and mentally powerful.
I post this a lot on here, but I found an 800 prediction workout a few years ago that seems to work well.
Each set is;
300-200-200-100 (= 800 meters).
Take 1 minute between reps. Stop your watch at the end of each rep but do not reset it.
When the set is complete you'll have a time for 800 meters.
Take full recovery and repeat. Average your times for the sets and that's what you can run an 800 in.
You’re joking right ? The fastest 800 runners could run this in 34, 23 23 and 11.5. And with full rest recovery maybe 1 second slower on the 300 and 200s.
I post this a lot on here, but I found an 800 prediction workout a few years ago that seems to work well.
Each set is;
300-200-200-100 (= 800 meters).
Take 1 minute between reps. Stop your watch at the end of each rep but do not reset it.
When the set is complete you'll have a time for 800 meters.
Take full recovery and repeat. Average your times for the sets and that's what you can run an 800 in.
You’re joking right ? The fastest 800 runners could run this in 34, 23 23 and 11.5. And with full rest recovery maybe 1 second slower on the 300 and 200s.
I agree that the workout is not a good 800 predictor (too easy/fast/lenient/generous) but I also doubt anyone ever could have run 34-23-23-11.5, except maybe 1:41/1:42 guys going 34.9-23.9-23.9-11.5 and being totally wrecked. Going 45.5-46.9 400 pace for 300m is not an insignificant effort.
Apart from that, nice work highhoppingworm, keep it up!
I agree that the workout is not a good 800 predictor (too easy/fast/lenient/generous) but I also doubt anyone ever could have run 34-23-23-11.5, except maybe 1:41/1:42 guys going 34.9-23.9-23.9-11.5 and being totally wrecked. Going 45.5-46.9 400 pace for 300m is not an insignificant effort.
Apart from that, nice work highhoppingworm, keep it up!
I am confident there are and have been speed 800 runners that can run this workout in the 34 low and 23 low, an exception of a 1:42 guy would be Nick Symmonds not being able to do it. Don't forget that the 34 is going to be run like 22.5 + (11.5 - 12.0), uneven splits, much like a world record attempt for an 800, 23.5 + (25.5-26.0), but faster. Wilson Kipketer did a monster workout 600 in 1:16 rest 5 min 300 in 35s rest 12 minutes between sets , repeated 3 times.
Happy with my week. Good workout Tuesday and good 400 TT Friday. Going to run an 800 on 5/20 so have about a month to build some additional fitness. Traveling the next two weeks (Disney for vacation then SF for work) so just going to focus on staying consistent. May take today off.
M - 6 @ 7:35
T - 9.5 w/ 8x800 w/ 60s off + 4’ off + 4x200 w/ 75 seconds off. 2:46/2:47/2:45/2:45/2:42/2:41/2:38/2:34 + 31/29/31/30.
W - 6 @ 7:24 Th - 4.5 @ 7:00 w/ 3x150m strides
F - 4 w/ 400m TT in 53.2 + 1 mile jog + 4x25ish second hills
Happy with this week. Travel is tough on training but got some good work in. Picked up some saucony endorphin cheetahs for my bday which I’m excited to try out.
M - Off @ Disney T - 6 @ 7:24
W - 10 as 3 up + 7x1000 w/ 70s off + 5’ off + 4x200 w/ 75s off. 3:29/3:27/3:25/3:23/3:22/3:20/3:16 + 30/29/30/29.
Th - 6 @ 7:28 Fr - 5 @ 7:25 + 7x10s hill sprints up drawbridge
Sa - 8 as 3 up + 6x600 w/ 2’ off + 5’ off + 2x200. 1:48/1:47/1:46/1:44/1:45/1:41 + 27/28.
Changing gears and focusing on some shorter stuff and wondering if anyone out there has any interest in supplying weekly training for an older dude (will be 38 in a few weeks) who probably hasn't hit top speed in 15 years. I am not looking for a super serious paid engagement or anything but will definitely put in the work. Perhaps someone who has some experience racing these events and wants to coach eventually but doesn't have a ton of experience would be a good match.
Happy to exchange stuff on this thread or do it elsewhere.
Very quick running history:
* Picked up running about 3 years ago after a decade+ of no real exercise.
* Have focused mainly on longer stuff (5k, marathon etc.) with mixed results.
* Best PR is probably 5k (15:23) from last May. Was run on HM training.
* Definitely more inclined to shorter stuff. I am not small (6'2" and 185-190) and was a jumper when I was younger (not great but decent ... e.g. 2.05m in HJ). Did a lot of sprinting (100/200/400) alongside that in HS and some in college on top of the jumps.
* Was in a marathon cycle but ran into some health issues which sidelined me. Starting back up next week after 2 weeks or so off and 4 weeks or so of pretty sketchy training before that so not starting from the beginning but also not in great shape.
* No real time goals at this point given I am not quite sure how my body will respond to faster work.
Just received message from 40 year old who wants to break 2 mins. The challenges of coaching. He will run 1:57 before the end of 2023. Well that is the plan.
Changing gears and focusing on some shorter stuff and wondering if anyone out there has any interest in supplying weekly training for an older dude (will be 38 in a few weeks) who probably hasn't hit top speed in 15 years. I am not looking for a super serious paid engagement or anything but will definitely put in the work. Perhaps someone who has some experience racing these events and wants to coach eventually but doesn't have a ton of experience would be a good match.
Happy to exchange stuff on this thread or do it elsewhere.
Very quick running history:
* Picked up running about 3 years ago after a decade+ of no real exercise.
* Have focused mainly on longer stuff (5k, marathon etc.) with mixed results.
* Best PR is probably 5k (15:23) from last May. Was run on HM training.
* Definitely more inclined to shorter stuff. I am not small (6'2" and 185-190) and was a jumper when I was younger (not great but decent ... e.g. 2.05m in HJ). Did a lot of sprinting (100/200/400) alongside that in HS and some in college on top of the jumps.
* Was in a marathon cycle but ran into some health issues which sidelined me. Starting back up next week after 2 weeks or so off and 4 weeks or so of pretty sketchy training before that so not starting from the beginning but also not in great shape.
* No real time goals at this point given I am not quite sure how my body will respond to faster work.
Just received message from 40 year old who wants to break 2 mins. The challenges of coaching. He will run 1:57 before the end of 2023. Well that is the plan.
That’s cool. What is it about his background and/or current training that makes you confident in that plan?
Good week. Was traveling Monday to Friday in SF so just happy to have been consistent. Workouts were solid and are feeling increasingly in control. Friday workout was on a waterfront trail near airport and had some sketchy footing so hard to run fast.
Next week is my last week in the “fundamental” period of this block. Workouts start to get much more 800 specific from here on out. I am going to run open up with an 800 on 5/20. At this point I don’t really know what to expect or what to even go out at through 400 so debating a 600 TT next week in place of Friday workout.
M - 6 @ 7:35
T - 10 as 3 up + 9x800 w/ 60s off + 4’ off + 4x200 w/ 75s off. 2:46/2:46/2:45/2:43/2:43/2:43/2:42/2:39/2:37 + 31/30/29/29
W - 6 @ 7:33 Th - 6 @ 7:43 w/ 7x10s hill sprints
Fr - 7 as 3 up + 9x300 w/ 75s off + 4’ + 2x200 w/ 3’ off. 50/50/48/48/48/48/48/47/47 + 29/29
Sa - 9 @ 6:53 Su - 4.5 as 3 up + 8x100 strides w/ walk back. 13s and 14s. Cold and rainy so kept it relaxed.
Nice job with the training. It has been interesting to follow your workouts and it looks like you are making good progress.
Some advice I would offer is to start the faster workouts (such as 9x300m) with a short tempo (at LT1) of around 1-2 miles to help you warm up better for the sessions & add a tiny bit of aerobic stimulus.
Along with that I would suggest some shorter strides of around 40m (for example 8x40m 1:30 rest, or 2x(40,60,80m)). These can be done at 800m-1500m pace, not faster, so that they provide neuromuscular benefits with minimal fatigue.
It looks like you're doing a good job and are on track to run well. Hopefully some of this is useful to you.