Is Raevyn noticeably better than she was in 2019 when she won world silver pre Julian?
You're also missing out Alexa Efraimson and Ella Donahue on the women's side. They make Hunter look elite. I'd also say this is probs Koko's worst season since 2017.
So I'm inclined to be harsher. Given the talent + resources he's working with this is a pretty sad return.
But she wasn’t running fast times for a couple months it was a very extended period of time, so REDs likely would’ve caught up to her much faster. Idk just speculating here. Also, her mother is very similar in terms of frame to her so she might naturally just be small
Julian coached a women to 6th in the World Champs 1500. A women 7th in the World Champs 1500. And a women to 6th in the World Champs 800m. Just this year. Is there another American coach or global coach that had that same success? I'm sure there likely is, but less than two or three.
He should be fired?
OK, Brazier has been hurt but he had the great indoor season just this year. And c'mon, Klosterhalfen? Give the man a break. If anything she's starting to look stronger and seemingly and miraculously improving health.
I genuinely don't get the criticism on Julian on these boards. He outperformed every other American based group at Worlds this year relative to roster size.
I guess you forget Raevyn Rogers Olympic medal from last year. Sinclaire Johnson won a national championship with Julian after struggling when she was with Bowerman. I do think some of the ex-NOP athletes were doping with Salazar. Their decline since 2019 is pretty obvious and they are too young to be experiencing age-related decline.
Yes she went under 1:57 in a sizable PB to win bronze in Tokyo. She also runs under 1:59 with a lot more regularity than ever. She’s better to me though it’s harder to see as the athletes around her in Mu, Keely, Reekie in 2021, Moraa this year and the rest have gotten much better.
Efraimson was a reclamation project so I’m not gonna judge too harshly there. Donaghu has ran OK with modest PBs…feels a bit early to call.
I always thought the Salazar group's philosophy was to train like an Olympic gold medalist or bust. In that context, I would expect most athletes to get injured, and you have a few Olympic medal contenders from time to time.
Make sense when one thinks about it. U.S. simply needs more talented young men to train for 800m so U.S. T&F fans of 800m do not have their hearts broken if some of the guys are injured. I have said it on here many times. U.S. 800m talent comes from Pop Warner football receivers before they get on the high school/college/N.F.L. weight training program.
I’d keep a lid on the “should be fired” bit for the moment. Are you suggesting O’Sullivan should be running things solo? As others have noted, Hull, SJ and Rogers are trending in the right direction and Koko is on the mend. If the coaches can keep the women rolling and sort out Brazier and Hunter for WC 2023, Julian should have plenty of job security. Sure, if performances slide, he could find himself a$$ed out of the 2023-24 NCAA superstar sweepstakes, at which point this thread might become more timely.
And if he can guide Hasay back to health & form--dropping 2:2X on the reg, at least--he’s golden.
Also forgot Osika who had her worst year as a pro, shockingly so.
Sure, but she went 1:58.1 in Doha for silver in a tactical race. You're telling me if she didn't have Athing dragging the field Tokyo style rather than Ajee leading out a cagey field that she wouldn't have found another 1.1s? She is more consistent, but also she's 25 not 22 so it comes with the territory. My hot take/spicy prediction is that Rogers doesn't win another outdoor global medal.
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Anyway, (not directed at you Thoughtleader), I dont think he deserves to be fired, but I also think given the group has such access to talent and the best resources of any team on earth, a 6, 6, 8 is a rough showing (out of a roster of 11 athletes).
This meet was considered a rough one for BTC: out of 5 women they managed a 6th, 9th, 9th. Their men (roster of 12 guys, so a good comparison to the 11 athlete UAC) got 4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 12, 12.
Nike needs to fire Pete Julian immediately. Since Salazar was banned, every athlete from that group has regressed mightily.
Koko was a worlds 5k medalist in 2019, now she couldn’t even finish top 10 at the same distance.
Jess Hull just finished outside of top 5, at the commonwealth games. Everyone had her as a lock medalist, before the race
Donovan Brazier was the best 800m runner in the world in 2019 and gold medalist in doha. Now, he couldn’t even make it out of the first round.
I could go on and on …..
I know most of you are going to say injuries bla bla .. I don’t want to hear that. maybe it’s Pete Julian method that causes all this injuries. Regardless of injuries, a head coach should bring some success to keep his job (At least some kind of improvement)
Anyways he needs to be fired immediately. He hadn’t done anything relevant to keep his job, since he became a head coach.
so the Coach that was definitely somewhere between doping & excessively questionable methods.... stops having access to the athletes, they stop performing at the level they were at with him, and you blame the new coach?
If I loan you my car as soon as I've used up all the petrol, do you get blamed for it not being able to start?
Nike needs to fire Pete Julian immediately. Since Salazar was banned, every athlete from that group has regressed mightily.
Koko was a worlds 5k medalist in 2019, now she couldn’t even finish top 10 at the same distance.
Jess Hull just finished outside of top 5, at the commonwealth games. Everyone had her as a lock medalist, before the race
Donovan Brazier was the best 800m runner in the world in 2019 and gold medalist in doha. Now, he couldn’t even make it out of the first round.
I could go on and on …..
I know most of you are going to say injuries bla bla .. I don’t want to hear that. maybe it’s Pete Julian method that causes all this injuries. Regardless of injuries, a head coach should bring some success to keep his job (At least some kind of improvement)
Anyways he needs to be fired immediately. He hadn’t done anything relevant to keep his job, since he became a head coach.
If you fire all the good coaches for winning and the bad coaches for not winning, who will be left?
It may be time for Nike to re organize . They did this after dismantling Athletics West. Perhaps spread out again. Have a Nike West team, East Time , Mid west Team , Southwest etc. Hire a few good coaches and have some diversity in the goals. Maybe some emphasis on Road racing/ marathon groups. Track specialists .
Who knows, maybe his athletes are clean now... when you learn to coach by working with doped athletes, it's hard to come down to coach clean athletes.
Ding ding ding!! They are all of the special sauce. It's so painfully obvious. Their coach was banned for breaking anti-doping rules, and now they are struggling because they aren't getting the drugs anymore inside of hollowed out books. It's too coincidental that they all rapidly declined after Salazar was booted out. Man, sucks to be clean I guess.
Yes she went under 1:57 in a sizable PB to win bronze in Tokyo. She also runs under 1:59 with a lot more regularity than ever. She’s better to me though it’s harder to see as the athletes around her in Mu, Keely, Reekie in 2021, Moraa this year and the rest have gotten much better.
Efraimson was a reclamation project so I’m not gonna judge too harshly there. Donaghu has ran OK with modest PBs…feels a bit early to call.
Also forgot Osika who had her worst year as a pro, shockingly so.
Sure, but she went 1:58.1 in Doha for silver in a tactical race. You're telling me if she didn't have Athing dragging the field Tokyo style rather than Ajee leading out a cagey field that she wouldn't have found another 1.1s? She is more consistent, but also she's 25 not 22 so it comes with the territory. My hot take/spicy prediction is that Rogers doesn't win another outdoor global medal.
--
Anyway, (not directed at you Thoughtleader), I dont think he deserves to be fired, but I also think given the group has such access to talent and the best resources of any team on earth, a 6, 6, 8 is a rough showing (out of a roster of 11 athletes).
This meet was considered a rough one for BTC: out of 5 women they managed a 6th, 9th, 9th. Their men (roster of 12 guys, so a good comparison to the 11 athlete UAC) got 4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 12, 12.
Osika left boring Michigan to move to the Land of Magic. Oops, she had here worst year yet. Nike coaches love to wreck runners.
Nike needs to fire Pete Julian immediately. Since Salazar was banned, every athlete from that group has regressed mightily.
Koko was a worlds 5k medalist in 2019, now she couldn’t even finish top 10 at the same distance.
Jess Hull just finished outside of top 5, at the commonwealth games. Everyone had her as a lock medalist, before the race
Donovan Brazier was the best 800m runner in the world in 2019 and gold medalist in doha. Now, he couldn’t even make it out of the first round.
I could go on and on …..
I know most of you are going to say injuries bla bla .. I don’t want to hear that. maybe it’s Pete Julian method that causes all this injuries. Regardless of injuries, a head coach should bring some success to keep his job (At least some kind of improvement)
Anyways he needs to be fired immediately. He hadn’t done anything relevant to keep his job, since he became a head coach.
All verbiage no content. I fail to see why Pete Julian needs to be fired?