Trust me, if you are doing 4-5x6:00 @ M pace w/2:00R and you read 2.5 mmol, even on a Lactate Pro 2, you are going too hard for the intent of the AM session
Why is rest 2min? Marius mentioned 1min... 🤷
Its going to change very little 1-2:00. Again the AM session is an LT1 ish workout for all intents and purposes. Think of it more as an extended priming effort before the real effort in the PM
But if you are going to control this session and think you can test lactate by yourself and be back on the next rrp in under 1:00, go for it. But the :30R & 1:00R are general guidelines to begin with. These are broken into sets inside the workout to test and control the session.
Does anyone think they’re testing in :30R during the 400 Thresholds?
Its going to change very little 1-2:00. Again the AM session is an LT1 ish workout for all intents and purposes. Think of it more as an extended priming effort before the real effort in the PM
But if you are going to control this session and think you can test lactate by yourself and be back on the next rrp in under 1:00, go for it. But the :30R & 1:00R are general guidelines to begin with. These are broken into sets inside the workout to test and control the session.
Does anyone think they’re testing in :30R during the 400 Thresholds?
Thank you, at 30s even 45s rest I do not test, only after complete all reps 20-25×400 👍😆 it is impossible to test along... 🤦♂️ same for 10x3min/1min rest, 1st rep rest is 95s due to test and last test after finish all 10
For AM session I could not test myself withing 60s, it takes me around 95s, so AM session after 1st rep I usually spend 95s for test and then do last test only after finish all 6 reps 🤷
Based on strava, Kristoffer Ingebrigtsen is doing the same when he is along outdoor, when he is on treadmill he test yourself more frequent during reps...
Its going to change very little 1-2:00. Again the AM session is an LT1 ish workout for all intents and purposes. Think of it more as an extended priming effort before the real effort in the PM
But if you are going to control this session and think you can test lactate by yourself and be back on the next rrp in under 1:00, go for it. But the :30R & 1:00R are general guidelines to begin with. These are broken into sets inside the workout to test and control the session.
Does anyone think they’re testing in :30R during the 400 Thresholds?
Thank you, at 30s even 45s rest I do not test, only after complete all reps 20-25×400 👍😆 it is impossible to test along... 🤦♂️ same for 10x3min/1min rest, 1st rep rest is 95s due to test and last test after finish all 10
For AM session I could not test myself withing 60s, it takes me around 95s, so AM session after 1st rep I usually spend 95s for test and then do last test only after finish all 6 reps 🤷
Based on strava, Kristoffer Ingebrigtsen is doing the same when he is along outdoor, when he is on treadmill he test yourself more frequent during reps...
Interesting. Id test in the middle, 5th rep for 10x3:00 workout, after 10th rep in the 20x400 workout. Then after last rep. Your lactate hasn’t really gotten to a steady state after only 3:00 or less
Its going to change very little 1-2:00. Again the AM session is an LT1 ish workout for all intents and purposes. Think of it more as an extended priming effort before the real effort in the PM
But if you are going to control this session and think you can test lactate by yourself and be back on the next rrp in under 1:00, go for it. But the :30R & 1:00R are general guidelines to begin with. These are broken into sets inside the workout to test and control the session.
Does anyone think they’re testing in :30R during the 400 Thresholds?
Thank you, at 30s even 45s rest I do not test, only after complete all reps 20-25×400 👍😆 it is impossible to test along... 🤦♂️ same for 10x3min/1min rest, 1st rep rest is 95s due to test and last test after finish all 10
For AM session I could not test myself withing 60s, it takes me around 95s, so AM session after 1st rep I usually spend 95s for test and then do last test only after finish all 6 reps 🤷
Based on strava, Kristoffer Ingebrigtsen is doing the same when he is along outdoor, when he is on treadmill he test yourself more frequent during reps...
I would not test before 6-7 minutes of actual work - let's take 10x1000/1 min rest. I would run this on the track, and have my needle, wipes, stripes and meter ready on a chair. I can do the test in around 35 seconds. Put strip in meter, puncture skin, wipe away first drop, test second drop - that's 35-40 seconds, and result after 55 seconds. And I'll be running after 60-70 seconds of total rest.
With 10x1000 I would test after 2 and 4 - if pace is steady and lactate is steady, I wouldn't test more. If something is off, I would test again after 6.
If I was doing 15x1000 - I would test again after 15, to make sure that I got enough carbs during the run.
Thank you, at 30s even 45s rest I do not test, only after complete all reps 20-25×400 👍😆 it is impossible to test along... 🤦♂️ same for 10x3min/1min rest, 1st rep rest is 95s due to test and last test after finish all 10
For AM session I could not test myself withing 60s, it takes me around 95s, so AM session after 1st rep I usually spend 95s for test and then do last test only after finish all 6 reps 🤷
Based on strava, Kristoffer Ingebrigtsen is doing the same when he is along outdoor, when he is on treadmill he test yourself more frequent during reps...
I would not test before 6-7 minutes of actual work - let's take 10x1000/1 min rest. I would run this on the track, and have my needle, wipes, stripes and meter ready on a chair. I can do the test in around 35 seconds. Put strip in meter, puncture skin, wipe away first drop, test second drop - that's 35-40 seconds, and result after 55 seconds. And I'll be running after 60-70 seconds of total rest.
With 10x1000 I would test after 2 and 4 - if pace is steady and lactate is steady, I wouldn't test more. If something is off, I would test again after 6.
If I was doing 15x1000 - I would test again after 15, to make sure that I got enough carbs during the run.
I would not test before 6-7 minutes of actual work - let's take 10x1000/1 min rest. I would run this on the track, and have my needle, wipes, stripes and meter ready on a chair. I can do the test in around 35 seconds. Put strip in meter, puncture skin, wipe away first drop, test second drop - that's 35-40 seconds, and result after 55 seconds. And I'll be running after 60-70 seconds of total rest.
With 10x1000 I would test after 2 and 4 - if pace is steady and lactate is steady, I wouldn't test more. If something is off, I would test again after 6.
If I was doing 15x1000 - I would test again after 15, to make sure that I got enough carbs during the run.
Yeah 6-7 minutes of total work at least.
Understood, so, for AM session after 1st rep is ok to be tested, but for PM session like 10x3min I should test after 2nd or 4th rep, right? Appreciate for suggestion! 👍👐
The middle/moderate zone is AeT/marathon type pace. Spend little time in this zone.
So the Norweigan threshold model has basically nothing to do with Seiler's polarized training model.
For the bulk of the training, the Norweigan threshold model essentially looks like trying to get a lot of sub-threshold running done with a very small fraction of running done at around VO2 max or faster - some 200m repeats uphill etc...
In many ways the Norweigan threshold model looks like a more scientific and regulated version of Lydiard who essentially proposed doing a lot of fast but relaxed aerobic runs....
Also, as I have said before lactate levels are individualized depending on the athlete type so I the training thresholds set for a specific person in Norway are likely to be different for anyone here.
So, if you do test your lactate levels, you have to do a number of tests to determine your threshold levels. Have someone who knows what they are doing test you.
Also, as I have said before lactate levels are individualized depending on the athlete type so I the training thresholds set for a specific person in Norway are likely to be different for anyone here.
So, if you do test your lactate levels, you have to do a number of tests to determine your threshold levels. Have someone who knows what they are doing test you.
Well of course, you need to do a step test or most of what we are discussing here is completely out of context
Most people will mess-up double thresholds. They won’t do a lactate test first, they’ll just go into it based on the general 4.0 number. You have to test first.
I know people disagree with this, but I think you should be testing frequently when you first start. If doing 10x1k, test after 3, 6 and 10 at a minimum. Maybe even 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10. As you learn to feel threshold you can test less frequently. If you are over the number, the workout is done and you can try again next workout. Chalk it up to a learning experience. I see a lot of people starting double thresholds on Strava and posting their lactate. I see people go over and 4, even up to 5 and do another few reps. Doing that ruins the workout IMO. Especially if you’re at 5 with a few reps to go. Workout over.
Most people will mess-up double thresholds. They won’t do a lactate test first, they’ll just go into it based on the general 4.0 number. You have to test first.
I know people disagree with this, but I think you should be testing frequently when you first start. If doing 10x1k, test after 3, 6 and 10 at a minimum. Maybe even 2, 4, 6, 8 and 10. As you learn to feel threshold you can test less frequently. If you are over the number, the workout is done and you can try again next workout. Chalk it up to a learning experience. I see a lot of people starting double thresholds on Strava and posting their lactate. I see people go over and 4, even up to 5 and do another few reps. Doing that ruins the workout IMO. Especially if you’re at 5 with a few reps to go. Workout over.
100%
When youve tested a lot you will be able to know the pace/HR #s that put you right in the ballpark, but if youre over early in these workouts youre wsy beyond steady state and might as well wait and try again with a more conservative start, especially if you are set on running a constant pace throughout. The trap is that most ppl wont ever slow down in these workouts when they should, so they just keep adding the stress by staying where they are, which is already on or past the pointy end of their metabolic curve
Supposedly are 2.5 in the morning and 3 at night. I.e. solid zone 2 workouts. Note they are using numbers from testing and their LT isn't at 4. It is right around 3. 2 and 4 are good starting points but you need to use your athletes actual values not those for populations.
But sure call them zone 1 workouts. You still aren't doing polarized training. Polarized training doesn't say do 80% of the work in zone 1. It says do 80% easy. Easy is down at ~70% hr and lactates closer to 1 than 2.
You would be better off arguing that they are really zone 3 workouts. But they really aren't. They are zone 2 workouts. The exact ones your supposed to be avoiding.
It is a classic pyramid program with a base of slow running, lots of quality threshold, and a bit of fast stuff (x days)...
I am sure if you asked Seiler would hand wave and count those threshold runs as quality. It is what he did for Seidel's program with all it's threshold work and MP work. His general point about threshold being bad was more about the stuff that was 30s too fast to be easy but 30s to slow to be quality work. Again not too many people would disagree with that.
The point was Polarized is pretty arbitrary.
I know their cutoffs. And 2.5 in the morning is too high with 3.0 in the PM probably being too low. The sessions that polarized allegedly says ‘your not supposed to do’ are the PM sessions, not the AM ones btw. The PM ones in a lot of ppls thinking would be ‘not hard enough’ in a lot of ppl that espouse generic Polarized programs which is why many advocate CV.
The point is they aren't doing polarized training as advocated. They are doing a pyramidal scheme.
Also, as I have said before lactate levels are individualized depending on the athlete type so I the training thresholds set for a specific person in Norway are likely to be different for anyone here.
So, if you do test your lactate levels, you have to do a number of tests to determine your threshold levels. Have someone who knows what they are doing test you.
Well of course, you need to do a step test or most of what we are discussing here is completely out of context
Yeah, I mean it might be obvious to you or others that are also knowledgeable but most people think everyone’s lactate “threshold” is dialed in at 4mmol.
I know their cutoffs. And 2.5 in the morning is too high with 3.0 in the PM probably being too low. The sessions that polarized allegedly says ‘your not supposed to do’ are the PM sessions, not the AM ones btw. The PM ones in a lot of ppls thinking would be ‘not hard enough’ in a lot of ppl that espouse generic Polarized programs which is why many advocate CV.
The point is they aren't doing polarized training as advocated. They are doing a pyramidal scheme.
noone running the 5000m is doing polarized in winter
Anyone know if some Norwegians combine XC skiing and running for their double threshold? I'm staying in the northeast of Canada and I'm starting to ski again this winter. Sounds like a good idea for those mornings when everything is covered in snow.
What's a recommended lactate meter and a safe website to order one? I'd like to start monitoring my threshold interval sessions and establish a baseline before going further into double thresholds.
Never heard of it. But doesn’t sound like a bad Idea if you‘re a decent skier. You just might not get that big of a running specific benefit out of it as if you were running. Your heart/ lungs on the other hand don’t really care if you’re running, cycling or skiing.