Norwegian Training Approach - Threshold Focused

I have actually worked with both Tom Schwartz (Tinman) and now a Norwegian coach, Arild Tvetiten.

Tom would do a lot of work at 10k pace or what he calls Critical Velocity. Ex: 8 x 800, 6 x 1600 . Rarely would we do any work over that intensity- except short hard 10 x 60" hills best effort followed by 1200m reps at Critical Velocity or 150m at the end of a workout. All of these would be with shorter rest (2' or so say we did miles at CV). Tom believed (and I am not quoting him, this is what I took away) that the body did not break down more by doing CV than it did at Threshold, so the adaptations came from being able to do a bunch of time at CV and not breaking down too much. Tom is not a big believer in high mileage though.

With Arild, we do everything between 2.5-3.2mmol, unless we are in a race specific phase about 2 weeks out and just doing race pace work. He believes it is important to do as much volume at LT2 a week so that the body can get strong while also learning to use fat instead of glycogen for fuel when running very very slightly under "threshold" pace. The lactate is simply a measurement of the byproduct of glucose utilization by the muscle cells. As a marathoner, I am doing about 40km of work at LT2 (3:20/km) a week, 16km of work at LT1 (3:50/km), and then 100k of easy running at around 5:00/km at altitude. Basically, the athlete is able to do this amount of volume a week at intensity because they are able to recover easily and there is minimal muscle tissue breakdown. High volume, controlled intensity, and 4-5 sessions a week

I think both methods work. The norwegian approach (IMO) doesnt work unless you can hit high volume... if you cannot sustain high volume + consistency then I would think Tom's approach is the better one.

I am a 15:16 5km/ 31:49 20k/ 69:46 21k and my LT1 is 3:50 and LT2 is 3:20-3:22 depending on the distance of the interval at altitude (1620m)

My workouts are like:

Monday 60' at 5:00/km + swim

Tuesday AM 5 x 2k at LT2, 60" rest , PM 10 x 1km at LT2 with 60" rest (around 35k total)

Wednesday AM 60' 4:50/km, PM 45' at 4:50/km

Thursday 75' at 4:50/km

Friday 4 x 4km LT2 (25-28km total)

Saturday 60' 5:00/km

Sunday 2:30 4:45/km

Nailed it lol

Your posts are extremely helpful. Thank you.

Great post! Keen to see how you progress under the Norwegian system.

It seems like to me Tinman's training is great on the high school and college level, but it's hard to run actual world class times with it. Moderate volume and moderate intensity is just not enough. Almost everyone at the top trains much harder.

Great post Lauren and the other one two. Thank you.

Question: Where is the LT1 run (03:50/km) here in this week?

As mentioned interesting.

My personal experience is, that running at 99%CV is exponential more load on the body as 95%CV, and that more than 90%CV. The lactate curve is rising exponential in this area. So it matters a lot how much and where you train between 99% or 90%CV.

Ingebrigsten do CV based training imo, as i outlined in

their running times are fitting extremly well with CV, too close to by a coincidence.

Threshold TH60 and CV is linked. TH60 is about 94%CV.

On Tinman's calculator page here https://runfastcoach.com/calc2/index.php, threshold is about 95.5% of CV pace. Do you think that his calculation of threshold is off or do you think his calculation of CV pace is off?

Their running times are not fitting with CV. Do not make a mistake believing if they run 25x400 @10K/30s rest it is a CV, by lactate and effort it is a threshold training and has nothing to do with CV exept pace, but not effort like Tinman approach with flooded lactate in the blood and by the way under Tinman training waaay too much injuries, it is a fact...

There is no TH60. Where do you get this stuff?

ok - I tried to edit this post or even delete it and re post but here is my CORRECT week

Monday 60' at 5:00/km + swim

Tuesday AM 5 x 2k at LT2, 60" rest , PM 10 x 1km at LT2 with 60" rest (around 35k total) (aim for under 3.2mmol)

Wednesday 90' with 60' at LT1 continuous (<1.2mmol, aim for 1.0)

Thursday AM 60' 4:50/km, PM 45' at 4:50/km

Friday 4 x 4km LT2 (25-28km total)

Saturday 60' 5:00/km

Sunday 2:30 4:45/km

Thank you for posting. That Thurs 4x4km looks tough. Do you feel okay on the Saturday and Sunday? Ingebrigtsens just repeat the Tuesday.

...oops, Friday 4x4.

Tuesday... morning session and evening session at LT2 (same mmol)?

It is a matter how you define threshold. There are numerous definitions outside. For some it is 4mmol, for others the ventilatory threshold, for other people the exponential turnpoint of lactate and other MLSS.

To have a clear indication Comeon i have invented TH60 which means the pace you can hold for 1h (60 minutes). Similar to FTP, which is very common in cycling. TH60 is a clear indication and is not established in the literature.

Canefis 25x400 @10K: 10k pace for elite runners is almost equal to CV (a hair below, 99.x%CV). But 10k pace is not 99.x%CV for hobby joggers as they need a longer time to cover this 10k distance.

lauren22 thx for updating

lexel: My question is, do you think Tinman's "Threshold" pace on his calculator is faster or slower than your TH60 pace? Or do you think Tinman's "CV" pace is faster or slower than your CV pace? Or do they both differ? Thanks

How would describe the difference in feeling and breathing rates of CV and that 2.5-3.2 mmol pace?

In the previously mentioned podcast it was suggested that breathing might be a proxy if lactate tests aren't available

I just did a Sweat elite video during that workout--lots of great info in there on lactate--

@canefis that is a great question (same mmol in AM and PM) -- theoretically yes, however, after the 1st morning session it is extremely hard to get lactate up (atleast for me..., I cannot speak for others) bc I am in such a glycogen deficit by the afternoon. I have never been able to get over 1.3 at 3:15/km in PM sessions, it is wild. However, I did speak with another athlete and he does not have this issue, so to answer your question, yes, we aim to keep 2.5-3.2 . The reality is that I am probably underfueling during the day... and need to do a better job