Although I'm considered a "lib" by this boards standards (I am a left-leaning moderate in fact), this type of stuff really bothers me. The US women should not be paid equally. They aren't as good. I don't want to hear that they do better than the men at the World Cup. The women's US national team couldn't beat a good high school boys soccer team. There's also the part that women don't even watch or care about women's soccer. More women watch men's soccer than women's soccer. My wife is an Arsenal and Real Madrid fan, we have 2 daughters who play youth soccer, and she refuses to sit and watch a women's game on TV. Says its too boring.
This equal pay stuff is such nonsense. Be as good or as entertaining before you ask for equal pay.
<sigh>
The US women's team represents great value for a number of reasons:
- they're outstandingly good compared to their peers worldwide
- they're great role models for healthy, aspirational lifestyles in an obese country
- they generate clicks (yes, positive and negative) and advertising revenue
- if the aim is to inspire future generations of girls to play, we have to give them role models, incentives and a clear path.
- they generate clicks (yes, positive and negative) and advertising revenue....... I clicked on Hope Solo's bh during the fappening ;)
The article quotes a person as saying equal pay was not possible. Who said that? The issue stems (in part) from a negotiated contract that both parties agreed to. Some of it was not great (hotel and travel issues should have been the same IMHO). It was always possible to pay them the same.
Imagine if we paid all YouTubers the same. "Yea, Mr. Beast has millions of views on his channel and brings in millions in revenue for YouTube, but we should also pay some random person who gets 1/1,000,000 the views the same amount, because they are doing the same job."
Women far outnumber men in the world and in this country. They could easily have equal pay and then some if they were to convince women to follow their sport the way men follow men's soccer. In every other business on the planet, an individual's pay is determined by the value they bring to their employer.
Women do not "far outnumber" men. 51 to 49% (there are about 5M more women) is not "far outnumbering".
This AGREEMENT just happened. Many of you are dragging up old articles that don’t perfectly relate with what the men’s and women’s team just agreed.
Also Jefe there are NOT more liberated females in the US than the rest of the world combined. There are more women in Europe (alone) than in the US. It was a narrow minded take from someone who likely hasn’t been outside the US ever.
I'm aware that the agreement just happened. I was referring to the lost opportunity USA Soccer had years ago to avoid this whole mess. That would imply that the history of how we got here was pertinent, no?
Why would you assume I've never been outside the US? I've travelled extensively through Eastern and Western Europe, North, Central, and South America, all in all, north of 45 countries.
The reason I say the US has the most liberated women versus the rest of the world is because, here in the US, a woman can put on shorts and a shirt and go for a jog or train for a sport, in public, without too much harassment (the harassment is still there but just a fraction of the public abuse women from other countries are subjected to if they dared to exercise in public at all).
If you're a woman, try running, cycling, walking, or just being, by yourself in Buenos Aires. If you're a budding female soccer player, try joining a pickup game on the beach in Recife with other women.
There are too numerous to mention female athletes in other countries that will never get a chance to play a sport of their aptitude because of a lack of facilities, support, safety, public perceptions, etc., etc. This creates a huge competitive advantage for the USA. The sports clubs in Europe are starting to up their game but are mostly spread too thin to give the US a reasonable competitive challenge on a national team level.
The US dominating the World in women's soccer is a good thing because it will cause other countries to view their females as something more than a pretty face.
USWNT is the tide that will eventually float all boats and, for that alone, they deserve to be paid equal to, if not more than, the USMNT. But lets not fool ourselves into thinking that they are in the same international competitive environment as the USMNT.
The US women should not be paid equally. They aren't as good. The women's US national team couldn't beat a good high school boys soccer team.
I’m not sure if you are aware, but (barring the discussion of trans athletes) women and men do not play against each other. They have obvious physiological differences between the two which makes it illogical to compare them to each other.
An effective argument would be:
Who performs better against their respective peers internationally? Women.
Who earned more views in the US in the last World Cup Final?
Women.
If we were talking about a different nation where the men performed far better than the women, then sure. It would be unfair to pay them the same.
But in the US, the women’s soccer team performs far better amongst their peers AND has higher viewership than our men’s team.
The national team in theory is not really a for-profit / market-based business. The governing body can set a single price for everyone for representing their country and being on the national team. I'm fine with that. Why not?
Now, in the the free market, that wouldn't make sense. Should all actors actors get paid the same regardless of their box office success. Should I, as a man, get paid the same as Adele if I bring my demo to a record company? Should tickets to my concert be priced the same as hers?
Imagine if we paid all YouTubers the same. "Yea, Mr. Beast has millions of views on his channel and brings in millions in revenue for YouTube, but we should also pay some random person who gets 1/1,000,000 the views the same amount, because they are doing the same job."
So, bright boy, how are the USWNT & USMNT not doing the same jobs? By your logic, the women should be getting paid more because internationally, they are exponentially more successful than the men's team. They are also a lot more popular. The USWNT gets a lot more viewship than the USMNT does. It's really not even close. As Temp Oh pointed out, the men, for the most part, are still paid a lot more by their club teams.
Maybe that is true in the United States, I am not sure. But worldwide, men soccer is exponentially more popular than women’s soccer.
Yes, the women should be paid by US Soccer the same as the men. That's because the money is coming from the US government through a sports federation. Should be the same way for basketball and any other government sponsored sport.
Now, as for individual contracts that are held by athletes and their clubs, and that's where the real money is, that is entirely separate. It is whatever the free market will bear. Too say that Megan Rapinoe should be paid the same as Mo Saleh, Luka Modrić, or Karim Benzema, is absolutely ludicrous!
Then there's product endorsements. A whole other realm that is an extremely big business.
The US women's team represents great value for a number of reasons:
- they're outstandingly good compared to their peers worldwide
- they're great role models for healthy, aspirational lifestyles in an obese country
- they generate clicks (yes, positive and negative) and advertising revenue
- if the aim is to inspire future generations of girls to play, we have to give them role models, incentives and a clear path.
I can't argue a single thing you have listed. Not one. They are all facts or things I agree with. Still doesn't answer why women playing for Team USA should get paid the same as the men playing for Team USA.
ok, then pay them for their success - when did the men last win anything? The US mens' team is a joke. It's the 4th or 5th sport and the aspirations and vision to improve and drive participation aren't there (and the budget wouldn't compete with other sports anyway). There's actual real value in the womens' team. Frankly I'd be paying them more than the men.
This AGREEMENT just happened. Many of you are dragging up old articles that don’t perfectly relate with what the men’s and women’s team just agreed.
Also Jefe there are NOT more liberated females in the US than the rest of the world combined. There are more women in Europe (alone) than in the US. It was a narrow minded take from someone who likely hasn’t been outside the US ever.
I'm aware that the agreement just happened. I was referring to the lost opportunity USA Soccer had years ago to avoid this whole mess. That would imply that the history of how we got here was pertinent, no?
Why would you assume I've never been outside the US? I've travelled extensively through Eastern and Western Europe, North, Central, and South America, all in all, north of 45 countries.
The reason I say the US has the most liberated women versus the rest of the world is because, here in the US, a woman can put on shorts and a shirt and go for a jog or train for a sport, in public, without too much harassment (the harassment is still there but just a fraction of the public abuse women from other countries are subjected to if they dared to exercise in public at all).
If you're a woman, try running, cycling, walking, or just being, by yourself in Buenos Aires. If you're a budding female soccer player, try joining a pickup game on the beach in Recife with other women.
There are too numerous to mention female athletes in other countries that will never get a chance to play a sport of their aptitude because of a lack of facilities, support, safety, public perceptions, etc., etc. This creates a huge competitive advantage for the USA. The sports clubs in Europe are starting to up their game but are mostly spread too thin to give the US a reasonable competitive challenge on a national team level.
The US dominating the World in women's soccer is a good thing because it will cause other countries to view their females as something more than a pretty face.
USWNT is the tide that will eventually float all boats and, for that alone, they deserve to be paid equal to, if not more than, the USMNT. But lets not fool ourselves into thinking that they are in the same international competitive environment as the USMNT.
You didn’t say the most liberated, you said the US has “MORE liberated than the rest of the world combined”
If you agree that women in Europe alone are equally liberated then it’s impossible for there to be MORE liberated women in the US than the rest of the world combined. Not to mention Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Japan etc etc
