XY athlete Francine Nyonsaba outkicks XX double Olympic champ Faith Kipyegon in Doha

Watching the race, I was pulling for Kipyegon, such a great athlete. I get a huge kick out of her victory celebrations, so heartfelt and natural. Faith worked it hard for good position on the last couple laps, and my heart sank to see her challenge with half a lap to go. Lane two in this situation played out as the viewer might expect. You can't win against Niyosaba running extra meters!
Could Kipyegon have won the race if she waited for the final 100? Maybe not, but it would have given her a better shot.

I like Niyonsaba too, she's tough, smart and cool. I can't say what the best solution would be for an athlete with the XY condition. There's no simple answer.
As for trans athletes, it isn't fair for (former) men to compete against women. Former women taking testosterone -- it's hard to know what is fair? They can't fairly complete against women, and I don't know that they'd be competitive at the top levels as men. Perhaps the non-binary catagory makes sense? I don't know. It's just not easy to figure out.

I am on the transgender/non-binary spectrum, it's always in there, but I'm comfortable presenting as male or female. I'm not changing my body. I compete as a man. I'm only one person, with one opinion. There is no "standard" on who is non-binary or trans, and how they should define themselves. I honor everyone's own definition of their gender, men, women, trans, non-binary and so on.

This is not true.

Yes it. And what Wejo and I were talking about are people like Fanny Blankers Koen (And I know I messed up the spelling) who dominated their sport then (in her case) were found to be "men" on the inside after she died.

It could be that you aren't old enough to have seen what we're talking about on TV.

40-100 years ago we would just think that "woman" was more "masculine" than the others.

I didn't read the rest of your post because you started off wrong.

The interesting parts about Schinegger, who wasn't allowed to compete in 1968, are that someone like that could now legally run in the women's 100 m, 200 m, 3000 m, 5000 m and so on. If it's true that Schinegger has XY 5-ARD, then he could even compete in all running events, as only XY 46 athletes are excluded.

100 years ago, yes, 50 years ago, no.

And Fanny? You sure?

en.wikipedia.org

Fanny Blankers-Koen

Francina "Fanny" Elsje Blankers-Koen (26 April 1918 – 25 January 2004) was a Dutch track and field athlete, best known for winning four gold medals at the 1948 Summer Olympics in London. She competed there as a 30-year-old mo...

Link:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanny_Blankers-K...

It could not be simpler:

If you have a Y chromosome, you can't compete in the "woman's" event.

No need to bother with Testosterone levels, anatomy, etc.

You mean Stella Walsh?

Run Ragged wrote "
Maybe 40-100 years ago, some men like you "would just think that 'woman' was more 'masculine' than the others" - but lots of women wouldn't. A great many of the world's women believe there's a vast world of difference between masculine, butch and stone butch women and males with the kinds of disorders of male sex development that Semenya and Niyonsaba have. We also know that whilst athletes like Semenya and Niyonsaba are often described in the press as "women with hyperandrogenism," they are actually nothing like females with that condition."
This is true. I'm a woman, and I find it very easy to see that these individuals are male. I had no doubts about any of them and there are a few other people popular in mainstream media whom I suspect are born male too but portray themselves as female.
Apart from the body, its evident from the brow shape, brow height, jaw, nasal root, and Adam's Apple. Then in the body, just a glance at the bone shape of the shoulders (not the muscular development) can tell you whether somebody is male or female. The voice is also a giveaway. Niyonsaba used to look like a typical teenage/early twenties boy to me. He know looks like a typical male-mid twenties male. No way could I mistake them, Wambui, Semenya or Mboma for being female even if I saw them for the first time.

Who are the brain wizards accusing FBK of being a man?

Thank you RunRagged for your elaborate and knowledgeable posts in this topic.

It is clear that these XY (wo)men with DSD have an unfair advantage.

IAAF initially had DSD regulations on ALL events. Dutee Chand challenged this, and CAS decided against IAAF. IAAF was told by CAS to provide concrete evidence that DSD athletes had unfair advantage, and IAAF could not prove that across all events. (Actually, they didn't have evidence for 1500/mile. They had evidence for HT and PV, but those two events didn't have any promiment DSD athlete.)

So what will happen next is that WA (IAAF) accumulates enough evidence to prove that the restriction needs to be extended to 3000/5000. Once they have enough data, they can add 3000/5000 to the restricted events. The same goes for Mbama and 200. Nyonsaba is well aware of that, and is willing to move to yet another event if 3000/5000 is restricted.

The only way this could change more quickly is for CAS to realize it is senseless to add one event at a time based on actual race results. But until that happens, we will just have to wait for someone to dominate an event for a few years before that event is added to the restricted category. That's why CAS is party to be blamed, and not IAAF (WA). WA is doing the best they can under the circumstances.

Understood, than you!

Thank you, not than you.

Also thanks to Just Another Hobby Jogger. I am not sure that I fully agree that WA didn't have enough evidence in 2018 for the 200 m for example, but I can appreciate that they decided to play it safe and focus on the distances around 800 m.

Should the do the same for the men 100m?

Prove that a group has an unfair advantage over other group(s) and restrict based on that?

I think not.

No one has "unfair advantage" in men's 100m.

That's the wrong appeal. CAS are to blame for overturning the original regulation that covered all events. The regulation covering only 400-Mile came later and is a direct result of CAS's ruling.