Daniels Running Formula Question.

You don't have the same coach for cross and track? Is he the assistant or just not there? That's weird.

In the Daniel's formula you won't need the hills. Jack uses the intervals to make you stronger and you will recover a lot faster from an interval session on the track or grass or road than you will from a session of hills, thus allowing you to get more workouts in. I've personally followed the plans and also used them to coach and they work great. You can combine some of the workouts from both plans. Read his chapter carefully and he explains the purpose of all of the workouts, then you will have a better understanding of what you are doing.

Good Luck.

not wierd. some schools just grab any teacher they can find to coach distances. sad but true.

I'm not sure you're thinking straight right now. If you have chosen to coach your self, I hope you are prepared to not be a part of a team in the spring. I did the same thing my senior year of high school and got a lot out of coaching myself. However, that meant I was restricted to running road races all spring instead of running track. In the end I got strength from running 80+ mpw that enabled me to run at the Div I level in college. If I had run with my track team, I would have never run near that amount and, being of limited talent, I doubt I would have been able to run collegiately. My path is not one I would recommend to others, however.

It sounds to me like you still want to run high school track as a senior. This means you will be under the authority of the coach and will have a responsibility to the rest of the team so you can't just do whatever you want.

Do all the research you can. Put together a great training program you believe in. Then be prepared to share your plan with whomever will be your coach this spring. Daniels is a great resource. If you base your program around his ideas, I doubt you will find too many coaches would have a problem UNLESS they already have a well defined program themselves. If they do have a program, then it would behoove you to seek to understand it and give it your best effort all season. If it's just wack, then part ways and train on your own.

Regarding your questions about substituting workouts, don't worry about it as long as they are the same type (tempo, interval, rep, etc.) After using his plans for the last couple years, I would suggest sticking pretty close to his plans. There are a lot of good things about his sequencing that become apparent only after you've tried them. Obviously, change the workouts if conditions or facilities warrant a change. I feel somewhat safe in saying that Hills and rep work in 30-90 sec intervals are interchangeable in the pre-competition phase. If you would prefer doing hills instead of getting on the track for 200/300/400m rep work during that phase, go for it.

Good luck to you. Keep your eyes on your ultimate goal, but don't sacrifice too lightly the relationships that come with being on a team. If you can't work effectively under your coach's guidance in the spring, then go your own way - don't be a cancer.

Thanks for the reply, no matter if I do my own training plan or not I will be on the track team doing races and all that fun stuff.

*Keep the replies coming, thanks again.

Good responses.

I too am thinking of applying some of JD's principles in the future. I have a question regarding the phase IV training. Can you just cut that down to say 2 weeks worth leading into the "big" race? Some of the things that he does are quite different that I have done. You all that have had success with the programs, did you have the full 24 weeks? I am thinking of taking the phase II for 5 weeks, Phase III for 8 weeks, and then 2 weeks of IV. By the way, I also mean the 1500-3k plan.

thanks in advance.

From personal converstaions with Jack and from actually reading his book, I will tell you Jack DOES use hills. Any REP workout in the early season can be a hill workout. Reps and hills accomplish the same purpose and are therefore interchangeable.

TX Coach,

In the books, it says what to do if you have a less than 24 week schedule. However, Jack will be the first to tell you that the formulas are not supposed to be a subsitute for your best judgement. If you have another way of chopping the 24 weeks inot a lesser amount of time, it is your call.

I have found that recovery from a workout on the hill is faster then when I run hard on a track. Hills are good & should not be avoided!

Great responses, thanks again.

Should I follow Daniels' plan to the T. or is there leeway? IF so, how much? ANd what kind of general mileage should I be doing, assuming that I want to run under nine for the 3,000, and under 4:14 for the 1,500? My long runs so far have been between 90-100 minutes, is that too long?

Not trying to be a jerk here, but....

Have you read the book? A lot of this is explained there. Wouldn't you want to understand the theories, and purposes of a program before you start it? I know that the book isn't exactly a quick read, but it does do a very good job of explaining what you're trying to accomplish & when.

Yes,I've read the book. I;m just trying to get some opinions on it. YEs, I do understand the theories in the book, do you?

Relax....

I'm not trying to berate you. I'm just suggesting that you read the book to come up with the answers to your questions.

In reply to your question of me.....Yes...I do understand, and agree with, most of his theories. I have even had the opportunity to correspond with him directly about some of them.

If you're going to ask for help/ideas from people, you have to be willing to listen to some things that you may think you don't need to here.

Doug E: Please stop belittling me, I am need of serious help here, and unfortunately my last resort has come to posting for advice on Letsrun. I have never been so frustrated before in my life with people, not you, my coaches and our programs is like a godamn three-ring circus. It has ruined me over the past three and a half years, now I'm out for myself. It's not the way that I would have it, but I can't rely on anybody.

I understand the book, I guess my question is more about how I go about doing this, and I would like to hear from some people that have been in the same situation.I know you're trying to be helpful DougE, so thankyou.

What are the benefits that you get from a 100 minute run that you don't get from a 30-45 minute run?

Is the point of a long-run lost if you stop during the run for a break?

hey Id be happy to help you out...I have coached at the hs and college level, competed at both levels too, and know a bit about the 9 min barrier, as it took me a while to break it and it was a staple goal for the HS guys i coached...anyway, give me a brief rundown on what you have done recently trainingwise, your PRs, etc...that is if you are interested in sound advice...

jcerge@yahoo.com

Jason

Thanks Jason, I will try and E-Mail you within the next couple of days.