HS sensation Will Sumner 1:48.14 (#2 US indoor HS all-time) at NBIGP!!

He ran 29 on last lap. Regarding Mu, I guess we are saying that he ran 29 but a DNF would be more impressive. I take that to mean Mu's DNF is more impressive than a 29. If Mu finished with a 29, she would have run 4:19. I like the thought process. I was putting Mu at 4:25 but 4:19 makes her world class.

Now that he has one under his belt that was under control against some good runners, watch what happens next time. Coe sheepishly admitted that he was somewhat surprised at what felt like a pedestrian pace with a lap to go against the likes of Scott, Walker etc. on his way to a WR in Oslo 79.

joe owner wrote:

He ran 29 on last lap. Regarding Mu, I guess we are saying that he ran 29 but a DNF would be more impressive. I take that to mean Mu's DNF is more impressive than a 29. If Mu finished with a 29, she would have run 4:19. I like the thought process. I was putting Mu at 4:25 but 4:19 makes her world class.

27.02-26.88 (53.89)-27.30 (1:21.18) - 26.96(1:48.14)

Even better argument. So he would have been more impressive not finishing rather than running a 29.96. And people are poking at Mu saying her DNF is more impressive than finishing with a 26.96? I like it. She will be running 4:15 in the mile soon.

26.96

26.96

[quote]real grammar nazi here... wrote:

Maybe try to stop being an argumentative moron: there isn't going to be "biological proof" for any of these suppositions (positive splits vs even splits vs negative splits). But the empirical data with support from sports science is that a small positive split is the optimal way to pace the 800m. Ross Tucker and others have studied and written about it extensively. Here's a quick overview found from a 2-second google search, which is all I'm going to give it (disregard that it's Runners World as it will lead you in the right direction if you really want to understand this topic).

https://www.runnersworld.com/races-places/a20800858/800-meters-the-oddest-race/

Excellent post. Thanks for the link to that article. It also has some great links.

Not to mention, absolutely correct.

This is not biology lab. This is the real world of high level 800 meter racing. Almost every world record over multiple decades. Add to that the overwhelming majority of elite performances in the top collegiate and high school races. If you consider the actual evidence and want to learn, the lesson is clear.

Even splits indicate that he was not at the wall the whole time, so he can run faster. But the biggest reasons he can run faster are that he is young, not yet physically mature by a long shot, and just took 3 seconds off his pr. He didn't even know how good an 800m runner he was yet. Now that he's managed this pace superbly, the record's in play next time out. But all that doesn't really matter, because he's got a bright future in the 800m and 1500m. 21.xx doesn't tell me that he's a 400/800 runner. Nor does his build. I think that he can be great in the 1500m and the 8. To be a 400/800 guy, you'd want to run 44. Some 1500 guys have even run 45-46. Maybe he will run sub 45 in the 400m in college, but he's a long way out. 400/800 guys also tend to run much faster for the first 200 and 400 of an 800 than the last 400. He said he's only run 4 miles at the most and that he doesn't even count his mileage, but this guy has 800/1500 written all over him. This was a terrific performance and he's by no means capped out at all.

Those who went to college in the Central, Mountain, Pacific Time zones , recall Spring Break, waiting for March, Stanford Invitational, Mt Sac Relays, early and extended training camps in Southern California between mid-terms and finals.

zxcvzcxv wrote:

He said he's only run 4 miles at the most and that he doesn't even count his mileage, but this guy has 800/1500 written all over him. This was a terrific performance and he's by no means capped out at all.

Translation: He is white and therefore is eligible to be the next great American miler. Meanwhile we ran Mu out of town with pitchforks for attempting to be the next Mary Decker.

T&F utility man (200-3000)m wrote:

Did you read exactly what I posted??? I KNOW MOST 800M ATHLETES POSITIVE SPLIT 800M RACES. I STATED I DOUBT THERE IS A BIOLOGICAL NECESSITY. Breaking for lane and seeking good positioning is why 800m race is mostly positive split.

Disagree with you here. Almost every 800m PR ever in professional ranks had a faster first lap than second lap. That is the correct way to race.

2022 looks a lot like 1952 wrote:

zxcvzcxv wrote:

He said he's only run 4 miles at the most and that he doesn't even count his mileage, but this guy has 800/1500 written all over him. This was a terrific performance and he's by no means capped out at all.

Translation: He is white and therefore is eligible to be the next great American miler. Meanwhile we ran Mu out of town with pitchforks for attempting to be the next Mary Decker.

You’re either a troll or a little bit deranged, imagining bigotry everywhere. We did not “run Mu out of town with pitchforks.” Sumner (importantly) has not run the male equivalent of Mu’s 49.5 400m. And of course, Will Sumner isn’t “white”—his mom is black.

That said, I imagine he’ll be an 800 specialist, with world class potential from 500m-1K.

Just wanted to chime in before the thread get's a little too far off the rails.

As stated previously, Will's birthday is late October 2003. Probably a little underdeveloped but mature enough to start handling more serious training.

His focus this season is on the 400 and the 800 training is mainly to push the 400 time down. Overall miles/wk are low in the 12-14 range, so he trains a bit like a 400m runner who can handle mid-d training.

His mother is one of the high school coaches but there is no indoor season in GA so prep for indoors was started well in advance of the regular track season. The 600 was a goal from the start with given his 47.01/1:51.67 from the spring. It seemed like a realistic goal in a fun low-key event and the 500 happened to work perfectly into the schedule. Can't say we were expecting 1:15 until after the VA Showcase and probably would have run 1:14 with the Woodward genes. I think the Sumner genes slowed him down a little :-)

I'm not going to name drop but there are a number of coaches who have been very influential from sprints to distance so he has had plenty of support to get where he is today.

Oddly enough, he wears the nike zoom 400 for races longer than 400m and zoom super fly for 400 down. Didn't want the 'super' spikes this season.

Honestly, there are no plans to chase 800 times this season. He was looking for one more 800 indoors and the opportunity to run the NB Indoor Grand Prix was hard to turn down. I know many were wanting him to go after the record but that wasn't the intent. With a 1:51 pr it was about getting into a race to see where he is with the event given his 600 time. Sure, he probably left some time out there and ran a little too cautious but we’re very proud of the effort. I think it proves he can transition to the 800 if/when he is ready.

I know this is a distance biased forum everyone wants him to run the 1500. Sure, he's built like a 1500m runner and that's his destiny. But over on LetsRunFaster.com, the sprint fans are claiming he's built like Jeremy Wariner and can run 43 for the 400. Seriously, whatever event he ends up in needs to be something he wants to pursue and not something we (or this forum) can decide for him.

Next up is the 400 at Kentucky.

This makes perfect sense and is the right strategy. Explains why he might struggle a touch (for now) at a full 800 against high level pro competition. At his age, keep focusing on the 400 speed. The endurance work can come later. The kid has amazing potential. Best of luck!

He ran 16:44. Hiw many miles was he doing then?

rojo wrote:

How impressive was that?

When he went out in last, I was thinking what is this sprint-based guy doing? Doesn't he need to get out hard? But then I remembered how even he ran his 600.

We couldn't quite see him on tv on the last lap as it was so fast but he just kept running almost dead even. That kid has a bright future!!!

27.02-26.88 (53.89)-27.30 (1:21.18) - 26.96(1:48.14)

Agree. I think he went out to survive. Nothing more. Hoped he'd be towed along, but was too slow at the start

rojo wrote:

How impressive was that?

When he went out in last, I was thinking what is this sprint-based guy doing? Doesn't he need to get out hard? But then I remembered how even he ran his 600.

We couldn't quite see him on tv on the last lap as it was so fast but he just kept running almost dead even. That kid has a bright future!!!

27.02-26.88 (53.89)-27.30 (1:21.18) - 26.96(1:48.14)

Good but not great!

Obviously this kid is an incredible athlete, but I am not super impressed with the race, the splits or the time. With his speed he should have gotten out a little faster; he is too good to have immediately went to the back of the pack. With that said, the 800 HSR is certainty more legit than the 500/600. I knew getting the 800 record was going to be difficult and the outdoor version is equally as solid. Btw, Michael Grandville is perhaps the most underrated H.S. track athlete.

Not many. There was a stretch of 4 weeks in a row of college visits so he was running 3-4 days/wk with the longest run of 4 miles and a few workouts with the team where they fit in. I wouldn't put too much into his 5k or 1600 time.

Meet The New Fastest Teenager In The World || There's Nobody Even Close...

That headline is untrue.