Your move, Molly Seidel

Bronze Medal in Olympics > AR on hand selected course with no competition

runn wrote:

I think it's great that we have more than one top marathoner on the world stage.

I wish the men could get it in gear.

US women's sports are still benefiting internationally from the early acceptance of women's sports domestically. Women's sports in the US took off in a big way in the 90's, beating out a lot of countries by ~15 years (looking at you, Africa, Eastern Europe, South America). It's starting to even out, but for awhile the US women's teams had an effectively smaller world to compete against.

JBaller33 wrote:

Bronze Medal in Olympics > AR on hand selected course with no competition

+1

I know many on this site disagree, but this is a sport in which defeating your top opponents head to head in races that matter regardless of conditions should always be valued more than running a fast time, even a record time, under set up conditions (pacers, wave light, no need to worry about winning or not, etc.). Molly’s accomplishment >> Keira’s. I can’t prove it, but I’m pretty sure the athletes would agree. Gidey would trade her 10K with Hassan’s Olympic Gold every day and twice on Sunday.

Puddin head Joe wrote:

Keira is now firmly ensconced as the top US female marathoner.

Yeah, except she isn't.

& that's not a knock on her. We don't always have to tear someone down to raise someone else up. Records are cool but Seidel has the H2H at the OT (1st vs 15th), OG Bronze, & was the top-American (w./ CR) at NYC. 2:19 is blazing fast but D'Amato didn't make the Worlds team & hasn't beaten Seidel in a marathon & hasn't beaten the same caliber runners Seidel has. Let's see them link up at a major or major championship. Might have to wait a while. Seidel doesn't seem interested in chasing fast times & is going to get the same criticisms other top Americans get for running NYC/Boston every year.

Wise Old Man wrote:

JBaller33 wrote:

Bronze Medal in Olympics > AR on hand selected course with no competition

+1

I know many on this site disagree, but this is a sport in which defeating your top opponents head to head in races that matter regardless of conditions should always be valued more than running a fast time, even a record time, under set up conditions (pacers, wave light, no need to worry about winning or not, etc.). Molly’s accomplishment >> Keira’s. I can’t prove it, but I’m pretty sure the athletes would agree. Gidey would trade her 10K with Hassan’s Olympic Gold every day and twice on Sunday.

I just listened to Carrie Tollefson's interview with Molly Seidel from November '21, in which she asks Molly, "which would you have, the American record or another Olympic medal?" Molly says she's a racer, not a time-trialer, and she'd rather have another international medal. She then talked about doing the World Championships marathon in 2022 and implied that she'd love to win a medal there maybe just as much.

Molly said that she really respects people like Sara Hall who can go out and time trial, but that's not Molly's thing; she prefers racing. So I imagine that Molly is very impressed with Keira's performance but not super jealous.

You literally cannot compare marathon times as though they were in a track. While, sure, there’s room for Keira to stake her claim, the only way to compare marathoners is in a head to head race. Keira’s win yesterday was great for the sport and I’m sure Molly is ecstatic for her.

There is Room for All wrote:

Let's Run used to be a collective of highly educated and motivated people with a passion for running. It has devolved into a bar fight perpetrated by low intellect misanthropes dabbling in specious arguments that have little to do with running.

this

Puddin head Joe wrote:

Keira is now firmly ensconced as the top US female marathoner.

Top US female marathoner of all time.

briswiss wrote:

Puddin head Joe wrote:

Keira is now firmly ensconced as the top US female marathoner.

Top US female marathoner of all time.

Lol

JBaller33 wrote:

Bronze Medal in Olympics > AR on hand selected course with no competition

These whole arguments are so useless. Time trialing to get a record is not at all the same skill than hanging with the fastest marathoners in the world in 90+ degrees. Both are equally incredible and to me personally Seidels skillset is extremely valuable as many olympics and championships are races in less than ideal conditions. So many marathoners need perfect conditions to thrive (e.g. Hall did not do well in hot Chicago).

So lets just agree that both skillsets are super important but that we lacked a robust racer like Seidel since many years and thus that skill being more rare makes it even more valuable.

Some people can run time trials (D'Amato, Hall), some can be ready when it counts (Seidel), and a select few can do both (Kastor) and that's why she's the best ever.

Nailed it. .. period.

Reasonable and informative post. I’ll have to ask you to leave.

Ask Bill Rodgers if he would trade his AR in marathon for Frank Shorter's Olympic Gold/Silver medals.

Guarantee he would take the medals before you completed the question.

Or ask Deena Kastor if she could only have her AR or Olympic Bronze.

Or Meb if he would take the AR or his Olympic Silver.

Puddin head Joe wrote:

Keira is now firmly ensconced as the top US female marathoner.

I think the OG medal plus a 4th at NYC with an American best for that course keeps Molly S at the top

There is Room for All wrote:

Let's Run used to be a collective of highly educated and motivated people with a passion for running. It has devolved into a bar fight perpetrated by low intellect misanthropes dabbling in specious arguments that have little to do with

running.

And pompous mediocrities stringing together a bunch of $5 words in a futile attempt to appear intelligent.

Puddin head Joe wrote:

Keira is now firmly ensconced as the top US female marathoner.

This is like saying Deena Kastor was the "top US female marathoner" until Sunday.

Molly Seidel has proven herself under tough conditions against the world's best twice and against the best Americans during Olympic trials. Keira got a world record under ideal conditions and course. Molly is still our best competitive marathoner. Molly isn't being cautious about her challenges. And isn't avoiding harsh conditions or competitors. Molly still has the crown. Congratulations to Keira but we'll see what happens when she races major marathons under different weather conditions and courses.