Sweet story ... love the shoutouts to MSU Spartans Beadlescomb and Gram.
Sweet story ... love the shoutouts to MSU Spartans Beadlescomb and Gram.
An extra year of eligibility does not mean that scholarships have increased. It may be a hard wake-up call for some seniors this Spring when their scholarships are not renewed for the next year - despite having 1 or 2 more years of eligibility. Schools need to use their scholarships for the future, not just to pay for Grad School for someone who has not been competitive. Transfer portal could be interesting.
DouchebagsAnonymous wrote:
To delve further, real academic schools in America don't allow for such nonsense, btw.
The Ivy League and the Service Academies are four year undergraduate programs with no extra years allowed to graduate and no allowance for non traditional age students to attend. They stay true to their academic purpose and they also don't believe in burdening their students, their parents, or the Feds with years of extra tuition costs.
As far as the Ivy League goes, this is completely false. No allowance for non-traditional age students? Hello, age discrimination lawsuits! No extra years? Here's Harvard's page about taking a gap year:
Our overall graduation rate of 98%, among the highest in the nation, is perhaps due in part to the fact that so many students take time off, before or during college.
Deferrals for two-year military or religious service are also granted. Each year, between 90 and 130 students defer their matriculation to the College, and they report their experiences to be uniformly positive.
If it's good enough for Harvard students, it should be okay for student-athletes.
https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/apply/first-year-applicants/considering-gap-yearDouchebagsAnonymous wrote:
Imagine who'd be winning College Championships if he had to actually face elite competition in his own age group.
Like Pat Dever and Robert Brandt last year at NCAA outdoors?
Kudos to LetsRun for the story. I've realized for some time that there are older athletes at the top levels of NCAA competition in several sports, very notably wrestling and football. This message board loses it when they hear about a BYU athlete being older due to going on a mission, a time during which the focus isn't athletics and they aren't dedicated to training. (Somehow people debate that missionaries are training, but I've never heard of a missionary coming back with fitness levels near where they were at pre-mission. If they wanted to spend time training, they wouldn't volunteer to go on an optional mission. They would just stay home and focus on training if that was the priority).
There are consistently older athletes in NCAA sports at many schools. It's not against some rule. At least be consistent with the outrage
I would say if anyone wants to compete, let them at any age as long as they still have their amature status. Many 18 year-olds are better in sports the older people. Last I heard, 18 year olds are tried in court as adults. They don't give 18 year-olds any special consideration. Same should be with sports. Complaining about it just shows discrimination against old farts.
Also read a lot of posts recently about this. I don't like BYU at all, but it appears no one cares about older people unless they go to BYU. I find that a little strange.
Great article-it mentions says Allen went on a mission, but nobody cares because she attends Weber. The age thing really sounds like a bunch of nonsense--people just whining because their favorite sub-par athletes aren't in the top runners.
colder and wiser wrote:
DouchebagsAnonymous wrote:
To delve further, real academic schools in America don't allow for such nonsense, btw.
The Ivy League and the Service Academies are four year undergraduate programs with no extra years allowed to graduate and no allowance for non traditional age students to attend. They stay true to their academic purpose and they also don't believe in burdening their students, their parents, or the Feds with years of extra tuition costs.
As far as the Ivy League goes, this is completely false. No allowance for non-traditional age students? Hello, age discrimination lawsuits! No extra years? Here's Harvard's page about taking a gap year:
Our overall graduation rate of 98%, among the highest in the nation, is perhaps due in part to the fact that so many students take time off, before or during college.
Deferrals for two-year military or religious service are also granted. Each year, between 90 and 130 students defer their matriculation to the College, and they report their experiences to be uniformly positive.
If it's good enough for Harvard students, it should be okay for student-athletes.
https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/apply/first-year-applicants/considering-gap-year
You are citing Harvard College, not Harvard University. Totally different schools.
I don't care about age that much. But aren't these people taking spots from younger runners who could use the experience? It reeks of selfishness.
This makes me a little sad. Graduated from Penn State in 1974 and started Graduate School. There were no DI running teams for women until 1975. There was no graduate eligibility. Thanks to Harry Groves (PSU Men's Coach), I got to travel to road events with the men off season and to run Boston in 1977 as my second marathon. No scholarships for women until after I graduated. Also got to know Jane Welzel who worked as a graduate assistant coach for the first PSU women's team. That was good. Later got to run with her again after moving to Maine when she was in NH. Sadly, all of us who were pre Title 9 had to work full time as we continued to see what women could do in running. The female scholarship grads just 4 years behind us never had to hold non running full time jobs if they were fast enough, until they either got married and pregnant or decided to quit.
Not sure what you intended to say, but your post might make people think they are unrelated.
Harvard College is a subset of Harvard University. It is just the undergraduate portion vs the entire university that includes HBS, Harvard law, med, etc.
You keep finding new paths to irrelevance in the space, I don't know how you keep innovating.
rojo wrote:
https://www.letsrun.com/news/2021/11/live-updates-see-the-projected-2021-ncaa-xc-qualifiers-as-regional-results-roll-in/
Can you imagine the reaction if US high school seniors got to race against US middle school 6th graders?
In most cases, it would be a 6-7 year difference, so a similar age gap between an 18 or 19 year old college freshman and a 5th, 6th, or 7th year college senior. Even if a high schooler took two years off a some point before their final year, I think that most intellectually honest individuals would agree that the individual who was 6 or 7 years older would still have at least a little bit of an advantage over the youngster.
And before anyone starts whining and crying about kids growing a lot between the start of middle school and end of high school, don't forget that the vast majority of individuals probably don't hit their physical peak until their mid to late 20s, so it's not like people automatically stop physically growing the minute they hit senior year of high school and everything is suddenly equal.
That said, the NCAA allows it, so I wouldn't call it outright cheating, but at the same point, to act like being 6-7 years older than someone doesn't potentially provide that person with any advantage at all seems to be intellectually dishonest.
just another day at LRC wrote:
Can you imagine the reaction if US high school seniors got to race against US middle school 6th graders?
In most cases, it would be a 6-7 year difference, so a similar age gap between an 18 or 19 year old college freshman and a 5th, 6th, or 7th year college senior. Even if a high schooler took two years off a some point before their final year, I think that most intellectually honest individuals would agree that the individual who was 6 or 7 years older would still have at least a little bit of an advantage over the youngster.
And before anyone starts whining and crying about kids growing a lot between the start of middle school and end of high school, don't forget that the vast majority of individuals probably don't hit their physical peak until their mid to late 20s, so it's not like people automatically stop physically growing the minute they hit senior year of high school and everything is suddenly equal.
That said, the NCAA allows it, so I wouldn't call it outright cheating, but at the same point, to act like being 6-7 years older than someone doesn't potentially provide that person with any advantage at all seems to be intellectually dishonest.
Can you imagine the reaction if US 7 year-old children got to race against US 1 year-old children???? Am I the only one who thinks that would be unfair if they ever allowed it???
The byu solution is simple. They can go on their little "missions" after they leave college. It's as simple as that. Make it a requirement that for athletes, there is no mission exemption. They will of course come up with a lot of nonsensical excuses why their athletes need to do their little "missions" during their eligibility: need to get married while in college, need to start a career, etc, etc, bullsh-t etc...
If you want to compete, do your college right after high school, do your little "missions" after college. You begin your career at exactly the same age as you would have except now you aren't a 25 year old racing children. You can still be a god on your little planet if you graduate at 21 and then do a few years pestering people in your short sleeved shirts.
They will never step and do the right thing, because that is how they are wired.
They should give this years freashman an extra redshirt in liue of a medical redshirt to help balance things out. The. Next year bring back to normal.
You seem rather unhinged and childish. Congrats (along with 2 or 3 others on this board) on finding something that allows you to display your animus and soft bigotry.
Just a boring broken record.
I agree
kw1954 wrote:
This just doesn't seem right to me.
In my day, you entered college as a 17-18 year old freshman (I was 17), ran 4 years and graduated at 21 or 22 (I was 21). Can't imagine competing against guys 5 years older in college. Just not fair.
So when exactly was your "day" in the 40's and 50's there was a ton of GI bill athletes that were a lot older, 60's there were very few restrictions so who knows how old, in the 70's - well just look at some of the UTEP squads. In the 80's I remember competing against 24 yo frosh. 90's etc etc etc ....
There are probably tighter restrictions now than at any other time. There have always been older athletes in the NCAA - always! Its really not that big of a deal, most of the runners are of normal age for their grade.
Life isn't fair sometimes, get over it.
hard to say wrote:
Why do Americans get so upset about people’s ages in the NCAA?
It’s a competition for student athletes. If you’re a student you should be eligible
Damn Straight!
they're grampas wrote:
The byu solution is simple. They can go on their little "missions" after they leave college. It's as simple as that. Make it a requirement that for athletes, there is no mission exemption. They will of course come up with a lot of nonsensical excuses why their athletes need to do their little "missions" during their eligibility: need to get married while in college, need to start a career, etc, etc, bullsh-t etc...
If you want to compete, do your college right after high school, do your little "missions" after college. You begin your career at exactly the same age as you would have except now you aren't a 25 year old racing children. You can still be a god on your little planet if you graduate at 21 and then do a few years pestering people in your short sleeved shirts.
They will never step and do the right thing, because that is how they are wired.
The NCAA will never change the rule. It doesn't just apply to BYU. There are returned missionaries competing at schools all over the place. Same exemptions granted for military and non-religious service trips. Complain about it all you want, but the rules not going anywhere, so there's no "solution".
Bigotry= complaining about BYU
Not Bigotry=having 25 year old compete against people 5-7years younger every single year because you expect the state to give your religion special treatment.