marriage is hell. why haven't we figured out an alternative?

Real Obvi wrote:

mount in wrote:

Honest response:

The wisdom of marriage is lost on the self-centered. In a world focused on "me time" and "self care" it doesn't compute well. It's an institution designed to compel individuals to consider the well-being of others (especially when kids enter the picture) above one's self. The lesson kicks in when you discover, ironically, that your selfless sacrifices generate a significantly more fulfilling and joyful existence for yourself.

Why would you need "an institution to compel you to consider the well-being of others"?!?

Because it's hard. People generally don't like to do it spontaneously. There's also a reward in it.

This is one of the best things I have read on this site.

Hmmm. I don't remember Joe Biden mandating marriage. But maybe your mom did?

lalallalalallappppp wrote:

STEVE THE ADDICT^^^^^^""""-""""--'-"--^' wrote:

Men are sexual seeking beings. Women are security seeking beings. Marriage enables these needs to be met. Now of course you may say a man can find sex outside of his wife though, but the idea of getting married is to implicitly claim the sexual rights to that woman so no other man can do the same.

Let the adults talk, Steve. You can share your knowledge when talk turns to more immoral ventures such as prostitutes or degenerative gambling…

I'd say breaking your wedding vows and getting divorced is pretty immoral and unforutnately pretty common. If you have a kid or kids and get divorced before all the kids are grown up to be adults, you have afflicted your child(ren) with adverse childhood experiences. These stats indicate that adults and parents need to do a better job keeping their word and promises and taking care of their child or children. So don't go worrying about unmarried men, who are not hurting their partners and children--unlike these married/divorced folks.

And you know the primary customer of the prostitute? The married man. And lastly, they call me Jordan Belfort Jr, buddy. If you want to call me a degerate gambler or investor, that's fine by me. I'm pretty sure my finances are what you wish yours were.

mount in wrote:

Real Obvi wrote:

Why would you need "an institution to compel you to consider the well-being of others"?!?

Because it's hard. People generally don't like to do it spontaneously. There's also a reward in it.

OK.

But I find that bizarre. And incredibly sad.

I have no problem considering the well-being of others (and raising children very successfully) without the institution of marriage.

mount in wrote:

Honest response:

The wisdom of marriage is lost on the self-centered. In a world focused on "me time" and "self care" it doesn't compute well. It's an institution designed to compel individuals to consider the well-being of others (especially when kids enter the picture) above one's self. The lesson kicks in when you discover, ironically, that your selfless sacrifices generate a significantly more fulfilling and joyful existence for yourself.

Best post I have seen all day.

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so it goes wrote:

You need to get over your hate of women.

I’m in a happy marriage. I’m a 35F and my husband is 40.

We do not have children.

My salary is $240k and his is $70k.

Our marriage is predicated upon our love and commitment to one another and that is that. I have no ulterior motives or financial skin in the game....although I deeply respect parenting and those who choose to have kids.

Anyway, yeah, happy marriages exist.

He's def cheating. Come home unexpectedly early one day.

I know about a handful of guys in this scenario, they all cheat. Either they use prostitutes or it's casual and they are funneling marital assets into wooing girls.

Like many others, my marriage is happy. In addition to loving my husband, I like him. I find him less annoying than any other person on the planet. Other than the death of my children, I can't think of anything more devastating than losing him. I believe he feels more or less the same way about me.

My friends seem happy in their marriages as well. I do have one friend who got divorced, and I was surprised when she told me she was separating from her husband. So I guess you never really know what's going on in other people's relationships.

Marriage is above all a partnership. Life is easier as part of a team. Especially if you want to have kids - and having kids is incredibly fulfilling - it's good to have a partner.

I think it's important to date around when you're young. Have a few serious relationships. Don't even think about getting married before 25, and date your partner for an absolute minimum of 2 years (while living in the same city - no long distance) before getting engaged.

But not everyone wants to be married. And that's OK. You don't have to get married.

so it goes wrote:

You need to get over your hate of women.

I’m in a happy marriage. I’m a 35F and my husband is 40.

We do not have children.

My salary is $240k and his is $70k.

Our marriage is predicated upon our love and commitment to one another and that is that. I have no ulterior motives or financial skin in the game....although I deeply respect parenting and those who choose to have kids.

Anyway, yeah, happy marriages exist.

Almost all marriages do not have that earning ratio though.

In most cases the bloke is working hard to bring home the bacon. The wife simply isn't interested in the same income, and as 'the mother who's raising the kids' ( a worn out excuse), she is more interested in working hard at spending his money. As time goes by , the things he used to ignore because he was young and thought, "loads of time to save", he complains more and more.

Eventually she goes "the kids are imndependent, let me get my half and go...tired of this unhappiness. Besides, I deserve it because 'I worked as hard as him, did most of housework and raised the kids"

The bloke wonders why he worked that hard and not speaking up earlier, since, despite giving her 50%, he suddenly finds himself with more cash flow.

More marriages are ending this way now.

Then for some reason, she ends up dating another guy who was on receiving end of same..while he tries to stay away from anyone 'with baggage', severely limiting field.

mount in wrote:

Honest response:

The wisdom of marriage is lost on the self-centered. In a world focused on "me time" and "self care" it doesn't compute well. It's an institution designed to compel individuals to consider the well-being of others (especially when kids enter the picture) above one's self. The lesson kicks in when you discover, ironically, that your selfless sacrifices generate a significantly more fulfilling and joyful existence for yourself.

+1

Narcissism is rampant in society. To be a good spouse or parent you need to put the needs of your spouse and/or children above your own. Most people aren't willing to do this any more.

So long as people love themselves more than anything else they will remain unhappy.

STEVE THE ADDICT^^^^^^""""-""""--'-"--^' wrote:

lalallalalallappppp wrote:

Let the adults talk, Steve. You can share your knowledge when talk turns to more immoral ventures such as prostitutes or degenerative gambling…

And you know the primary customer of the prostitute? The married man. And lastly, they call me Jordan Belfort Jr, buddy. If you want to call me a degerate gambler or investor, that's fine by me. I'm pretty sure my finances are what you wish yours were.

No one calls you that.

If your definition of success is purely finance-related you will be in for a lonely life. The hedonistic treadmill slows for no man.

bigopera wrote:

I don't know a single person in a happy marriage.

A lot of men get married to fit in. To fit in in their career, where a spouse and children are the hallmark of a "successful" man, to avoid being viewed as a hook up sleazy kind of guy, or because they see their friends from college married and feel left behind.

Men marry because its good for their self esteem.

The best advice is to marry somebody who earns as much as you when you're both young, who shares the same values and who, in an ideal world, shares your interests. You don't have to do training runs together, but it's good to have somebody there to talk with at nights who "gets it".

Some men deliberately choose a partner who earns less than they do, or nothing at all, or who doesn't have much education or ambition, thinking she will be easier to control, or will tolerate the cheating that inevitably ensues from this type of mismatch. It doesn't matter. Women unhappy with their marriage always have the option of divorce, and the less able to work they are, the more it will cost a man.

This type of man then likes to post on the internet about how all women are golddiggers, etc. Which is strange, because there are plenty of women out their with college degrees working full time.

It's safer to marry a woman who knows how to communicate, who will work at a relationship rather than walking out, somebody who is on the same level.

Happily married. My 18 year anniversary is next week. We’ve been together 22 years.

It’s a fairly “traditional” marriage, where I work and she stays home and does most of the housework and raises the kids. That decision was made after the second kid and I made quite a bit more, her after tax net after daycare would only have been about $10K.

We both stay in good shape, so there is still the physical attraction. More importantly, we are great friends.

I dated plenty prior to her and we even broke up once prior to marriage (we were still in college). It actually strengthened our relationship as the grass was definitely not greener on the other side.

I get it though, marriage is not for everyone.

Yeah Tiny Dancer i think you really nailed it there. The best marriages--the few that actually work, they're predicated on team work. Having someone who can communicate well while working together instead of selfishly is a key component. I truly respect these rare marriages. That's how they all should be.

There's a guy on YouTube, Mr Kevin Samuel's, and he hosts a dating and marriage channel that actually holds women accountable. The knee-jerk reactionists here would call him a misogynistic pig, but if they actually listen to his core ideals, he presents impeccable arguments. The premise of his videos is that too many women try to hit above their average, thinking they deserve a highly successful man in the top 5% of earnings bracket. The problem is, thevvast majority are usually undesirable and overrate themselves. They want what they can't have. How the hell does a single mom who doesn't work and has fake lips and breasts expect to marry a man making 200k/year plus? These unrealistic expectations also yield extra stress on men because they subsequently internalize that they have to be an uber successful person or else they won't find a good woman. Unrealistic expectations are a burden to individuals and greater society.

STEVE THE ADDICT^^^^^^""""-""""--'-"--^' wrote:

The problem is, thevvast majority are usually undesirable and overrate themselves. They want what they can't have. How the hell does a single mom who doesn't work and has fake lips and breasts expect to marry a man making 200k/year plus? These unrealistic expectations also yield extra stress on men because they subsequently internalize that they have to be an uber successful person or else they won't find a good woman. Unrealistic expectations are a burden to individuals and greater society.

Because some men fall for the conditioning that a compliant, unchallenging woman is less likely to divorce them.

Ask any divorce lawyer and they will tell you the opposite. Some of the women you describe have made it their life's work to get a man who pays their bills. They can make far more money in life by pretending to be an ideal housewife and moving in on a guy and into his home, so they perfect that act because they have nothing better to do. And some men like that - at least until they get bored, or it turns into a screaming match at home.

And remember that a proportion of these men will already have been rejected by or have rejected good women, often due to their poor behaviours, so their dating pool is shallower. Then they panic and marry the next woman who comes along who seems to want to get married and be compliant.

Then there's internet brides from third world countries. These marriages usually only work when the man is much older and the woman in her late thirties and forties, and she knows all she needs to do is hang on in there until he pre-decreases her and she inherits. With younger internet brides, once they have the marriage and the citizenship, the divorce settlement and alimony are better than winning a fortune in a card game. The stakes are far better.

Some men are just darn stupid. If you want a successful marriage, marry your college sweetheart, or somebody you knew from years back and re connected with, or somebody you meet through friends or your hobby, not somebody you hardly know who has worked out how to answer a few questions correctly about wanting marriage and kids and who can fake sharing your interests for as long as this takes.

bigopera wrote:

I don't know a single person in a happy marriage.

Married 12 years. Bisexual wife. I am not happy.

I am thrilled, every day.

She has the greatest and sharpest sense of humor of anybody I've ever met.

She has the highest emotional intelligence of anyone I've ever met, and certainly any woman I have ever been involved with.

It's a dream come true, that I could not have created had I planned it.

I have learned so much that I never expected to learn in life about women and the capacity of women sexually.

She's also the most orgasmically fluent woman I've ever met.

She told me she could orgasm without being touched or moving her body at all just by thinking. I didn't believe her.

So one time she laid there flat on the bed and kind of an ex and thought of a sexy story that turned her on - within a few minutes shekhar maxed. I know she wasn't faking it.

She's just a super sexual being as a woman. I'd never ever talked about my sexual fantasies or what when I found hot with another woman before – the ability to do that, WOW.

It was not the kind of conversation I ever had with my male friends – so it's really just my internal monologue so to speak but when that I found hot in real life or in movies etc.

It wasn't something I was dying to talk with anybody about either, no rush I got me talking it was incredibly liberating.

Guys oh, imagine being with a woman who is cool with hearing every sexual thought you've ever had - and doesn't get jealous, at all.

There's more oh, and everything I've said is true oh, but if I shared more you wouldn't believe it either...

10 of 12 women are willing to have sex with another woman in their lifetime.

The other two I'm never going to go there ever are there any conditions.

And gentlemen oh, you do not know how to make love with a woman until you learn how a woman makes love with a woman.

1 bisexual girlfriend of ours put it this way oh, she should have male lovers who never gave her orgasm oh, she's never had a female lover who didn't give her an orgasm.

There's a whole different world out there that some of you are just missing because of your conditioning and Bible nonsense.

I feel sorry for you and your limited lives, and the damage you do to your children and others by spending biblical claptrap and mythology and condemnation of human beings that you disagree with how they choose to live their lives I want to choose to experience.

Sorry for any dictation typos Google has regressed...

Literally no point to getting married. Gambling half your assets on another person for what gain? Having children is expensive as hell, about 50% of marriages end in divorce with 70-80% of women initiate the divorce.

On top of that, even if you do have kids then you'll still have to pay child support and alimony even if she leaves you for another man. Not to mention that divorce courts are heavily skewed in favor of the women with most custody going towards them theres no point. Especially with the accusation that every man is supposedly abusive which turns things into a guilty before proven innocent situation.

Even if you stay, your wife can wake up and say that she never wants to have sex again and it turns into a deadbedroom type of situation. Why even take the risk here? What do you actually gain from being married besides tax benefits?