Front Squat vs Back Squat for strength training?

Not sure I feel quad strength is very important for flat running. If you do not do bulgarian split squats, I would rather introduce those instead

They are called back squats for a reason. You must be doing something right if you aren't getting quad engagement. Try the old fashioned leg extensions if you want to strengthen quads. However core lifts are better overall exercises.

you helped me. Leg extension has not been shown to be specifically good for running. We think that strengthening of the whole tripple extentsion and the posterior train (glutes, hamstrings) is more important

High bar will hit the quads more. So will lifting shoes. If you already do/use both of those, then ya nothing wrong with some front squats.

Front squats are great as go as you have the mobility to do with them. Some people will argue front squats are slightly better then back squats.

You literally cannot perform a squatting motion without the quads engaging. Just because you don't "feel" them does not mean they aren't working.

Don't use where you feel a movement to determine what it's actually working. Use the actual joint movement and moment arms to determine what it is actually working the most.

Here are some examples:

http://thefitcoach.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/squat_bar_placement.jpg

The activation from quads, to glutes, hamstrings, erectors, etc, depend on the type and depth of squat you are performing as well as your own limb segment lengths.

There is no reason to do any isolation work such as leg extensions or leg curls unless you are a body builder or are rehabbing an injury.

I like cross arm front squats for runners and other non-strength focused athletes because it's easy to learn, easy to execute, and there's less stress on the lumbar. It's easier to poorly execute a back squat and still get the rep up with poor form/"stripper squat". If you perform the front squat poorly/chest cave in/lean too forward....the bar will roll off your shoulders.

https://www.muscleandfitness.com/exercise/workouts/leg-exercises/crossed-arm-barbell-front-squat/

Alan

local sheep wrote:

High bar will hit the quads more. So will lifting shoes. If you already do/use both of those, then ya nothing wrong with some front squats.

The reason a lot of people can't hit depth, especially many of the runners I've seen try to squat, is lack of mobility in the ankle joint. Squat Shoes or even a heel lift makes a world of difference. Many people also try to squat with a too narrow stance and can't get their hips between their knees or they are only breaking with their knees.

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote:

local sheep wrote:

High bar will hit the quads more. So will lifting shoes. If you already do/use both of those, then ya nothing wrong with some front squats.

The reason a lot of people can't hit depth, especially many of the runners I've seen try to squat, is lack of mobility in the ankle joint. Squat Shoes or even a heel lift makes a world of difference. Many people also try to squat with a too narrow stance and can't get their hips between their knees or they are only breaking with their knees.

Alan

I've never seen stiff ankles limit depth in proper squat form. In fact if the knees are coming way forward and they can't hit depth, other cues need to be in place. The quickest correction is box squats with just the bar. This will usually correct posture in beginners.

For the OP, don't swap in a variation for 1 workout. Do a mini cycle of 3-4 weeks, then switch back. You will learn, engage and progress better.

Powergeezer wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

The reason a lot of people can't hit depth, especially many of the runners I've seen try to squat, is lack of mobility in the ankle joint. Squat Shoes or even a heel lift makes a world of difference. Many people also try to squat with a too narrow stance and can't get their hips between their knees or they are only breaking with their knees.

Alan

I've never seen stiff ankles limit depth in proper squat form. In fact if the knees are coming way forward and they can't hit depth, other cues need to be in place. The quickest correction is box squats with just the bar. This will usually correct posture in beginners.

For the OP, don't swap in a variation for 1 workout. Do a mini cycle of 3-4 weeks, then switch back. You will learn, engage and progress better.

Agreed that ankle mobility is only going to afford a very limited amount of overall mobility at best. Hip and lower back mobility is going to provide greater potential range of motion increases.

I would also agree that it would a better choice to delete out back squats for approximately a four week block or two before returning to back squats. It's been mentioned by Dr. M.H. Stone that exercise deletion and later reintroducing an exercise back into a program will provide a more potent variation stimulus than going back and forth between exercies.

Powergeezer wrote:

Runningart2004 wrote:

The reason a lot of people can't hit depth, especially many of the runners I've seen try to squat, is lack of mobility in the ankle joint. Squat Shoes or even a heel lift makes a world of difference. Many people also try to squat with a too narrow stance and can't get their hips between their knees or they are only breaking with their knees.

Alan

I've never seen stiff ankles limit depth in proper squat form. In fact if the knees are coming way forward and they can't hit depth, other cues need to be in place. The quickest correction is box squats with just the bar. This will usually correct posture in beginners.

For the OP, don't swap in a variation for 1 workout. Do a mini cycle of 3-4 weeks, then switch back. You will learn, engage and progress better.

Have you seen many chronic runners try squatting? Ever perform a functional mobility screen on someone?

Chances are very few here can do this 5in from a wall:

Of course there are ways around ankle mobility issues such as wider stance, toes pointed more outward, more heel lift in the shoes. Squat Shoes are amazing.

Alan

Front squat translates better to athletic movements. However for runners it’s not as applicable because running is movement in only one plane.

With back squats you can lift more. Which will translate better to bodybuilding.

So for runners I really don’t think it matters. Just do something to get moderate strength in your glutes. You could just do bodyweight exercises for that like donkey kicks, bridges, pistol squats…

Its America not Merica wrote:

Front squat translates better to athletic movements. However for runners it’s not as applicable because running is movement in only one plane.

With back squats you can lift more. Which will translate better to bodybuilding.

So for runners I really don’t think it matters. Just do something to get moderate strength in your glutes. You could just do bodyweight exercises for that like donkey kicks, bridges, pistol squats…

Yes, it doesn't matter much for runners. Do what's easier and safe for you. I enjoy goblet squats.

Alan is correct. A limiting factor for squatting is ankle mobility which is why elevating the heels makes a huge difference for many. When my calves are very tight I place my heels on 2 and a 1/2 half pound plates when squatting. It allows me to get my butt close to the ground perfectly.

Its America not Merica wrote:

Front squat translates better to athletic movements. However for runners it’s not as applicable because running is movement in only one plane.

With back squats you can lift more. Which will translate better to bodybuilding.

So for runners I really don’t think it matters. Just do something to get moderate strength in your glutes. You could just do bodyweight exercises for that like donkey kicks, bridges, pistol squats…

Not really, There is some movement in the transverse plane during the running motion. The squat is much more of a single plane movement.

The problem with BW exercises and even goblet squats as a primary strength exercise is the lack of progression and lack of muscle mass used. A major compound movement like the squat will use much more muscle mass and is more applicable when it comes to increasing strength.

Alan

The goblet squat is as much a compound movement as a back squat. However you're right about it not developing lots of strength. 30 years ago I used to back squat, no more. Also, I'm not comfortable having HS kids load their spine with heavy weight. Let them do it college, I prefer reaching, goblet, sometimes overhead or front if possible as a progression. I'd also rather a HS kid have the ability to do a pistol squat with a kettlebell than a heavy box squat.

You don't need so much ankle mobility to squat effectively. In fact, as the knee comes forward, it comes down making it more difficult for the hips to go below the knee. I like a neutral shoe without much heel lift. The knees can stay pretty much over the toes.

I have trained people from 5'0" up to 6'7" with different body types. All were able to squat well within 6-8 weeks.