should not be allowed
should not be allowed
This post was removed.
RunRagged wrote:
rojo wrote:
https://www.letsrun.com/news/2021/09/2021-zagreb-results-francine-niyonsaba-shatters-2000m-world-record/The LRC report linked to says, "The most newsworthy performance in the meet came in the women’s 2000 where Francine Niyonsaba, who is banned from running in women’s events between 400m and the mile as she is intersex..."
I really wish LRC would use the correct terminology rather than the inaccurate, obfuscating word "intersex." Persons with disorders/differences of sex development or DSDs - aka variations of sex characteristics or VSCs - are not in between the two sexes, a combo of the two sexes or of neither sex; they have specific conditions that affect either male sex development or female sex development. Today, most of the approximately 40 different, discrete DSD conditions are well-described in the medical literature and well-understood; and in nearly all cases, the cause/s of each condition are known too.
Niyonsaba and the other XY athletes who come under WA's current eligibility rules for women's competition all have differences or variations of male sex development that caused them to be born with anatomical anomalies of the genitals and urinary tract. But apart from those anomalies, they are robustly healthy persons with functioning testes that since puberty have produced normal male levels of testosterone, along with the male physiology that enables their bodies to use testosterone as males typically do. They have all the same physical advantages over females in sports that post-pubescent males without DSDs do. Persons with one of the XY DSDs that is most prevalent in women's elite athletics - XY 5-ARD, Semenya's DSD - can also father children.
Calling these athletes "intersex" is almost as misleading as referring to them as "women with naturally high testosterone" or "females with hyperandrogenism" the way most of the media usually does.
The LRC report could just as easily have said, "The most newsworthy performance in the meet came in the women’s 2000 where Francine Niyonsaba, who is banned from running in women’s events between 400m and the mile as she is XY with a difference of sex development ..." or "as she has variations of XY sex development"
Also, LRC is incorrect in stating that Niyonsaba "is banned from running in women’s events between 400m and the mile" due to having a DSD.
Niyonsaba, Semenya, Mboma and Masilingi and all other athletes with the specific XY DSD conditions to which the current WA DSD regulations are being applied are free to run in women's middle-distance events under one condition: they lower their T from the normal male range to under 5 nmol/L for six months. But lowering the T that their testes make is something these athletes refuse to do. In fact, the very idea is anathema to them.
The affected XY DSD athletes, their PR teams, backers and the MSM portray the restriction on their T levels in women's middle distance events as a total ban from those events because it makes them look like victims who are being treated unfairly by the WA. Everyone who repeats the lie that XY DSD athletes like Niyonsaba and Semenya are "banned" from the women's 400m to mile is playing along with the narrative that's been carefully constructed to get these athletes sympathy and allow the charade to continue.
This. And I get censored for using a factual description and my words changed to "intersex". Orwellian.
It is almost like testosterone helps at all distances. How could the IAAF have known this in advance? If only there was some data. Like results from every race.
Not good for women's track
It may have been a soft record but that ignores the situational influence. Who is setting world records at this time of the year? You need massive margin for error to accomplish something like that, especially in a distance race. Niyonsaba competed in two events in Tokyo then has been among the most active runners subsequently. She basically hasn't skipped anything. Jakob is worn out. Hassan is worn out. Bol couldn't break 54 seconds today. Niyonsaba is setting a world record.
That is testosterone advantage easily overcoming all of the logical disadvantages.
MatthewXCountry wrote:
Roma91 wrote:
Francine Niyonsaba set her first world record at meeting in Zagreb!
2000m 5:21.56
meh it's a really soft record. If Hassan or Kipyegon went for this record, they could easily break this a a couple of seconds. The fact that O'Sullivan had this record before speaks volumes.
It's a soft world record - for a man. As we have just seen.
NERunner0353 wrote:
Hey, Brojos, you know you don't have to insert "intersex" into every caption for Niyonsaba right?
Right at the top of the home page (& every time you cover her): "Niyonsaba, who is banned from running in women's events between 400m and the mile as she is intersex, ran..."
We know this. We know that you have an ideological agenda & a click-bait one to push. But please stop. It's not good journalism. It's not helpful. This is something that you have to write every time she does anything in the sport. It's tired. We get it. Enough already.
Would you prefer the description "male"?
600 sq ft apartment, need roommate wrote:
It is almost like testosterone helps at all distances. How could the IAAF have known this in advance? If only there was some data. Like results from every race.
Being male helps at all distances.
I used that factual description and I was censored in Orwellian fashion, my words changed to "intersex" which is misleading and not factual.
Awsi Dooger wrote:
It may have been a soft record but that ignores the situational influence. Who is setting world records at this time of the year? You need massive margin for error to accomplish something like that, especially in a distance race. Niyonsaba competed in two events in Tokyo then has been among the most active runners subsequently. She basically hasn't skipped anything. Jakob is worn out. Hassan is worn out. Bol couldn't break 54 seconds today. Niyonsaba is setting a world record.
That is testosterone advantage easily overcoming all of the logical disadvantages.
There are no logical disadvantages if you are male.
alpha wrote:
mouth breether wrote:
Lol here come the head explosions!
Why would anyones head explode?
Any number of XY high schoolers could have done this.
^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^
DSD athletes are making a mockery of the XX Women's Category. Isn't women's sports interesting when anyone can run in the category?? So Interesting!
I am indeed entertained by this mockery of womens athletics.
They need to be banned from all events. Niyonsaba has XY chromosomes. Unfair advantage. Why not eliminate all sex categories in sport. She's biologically a man just with mishappen knackers. Shouldn't be competing in wimen's sport. Fact is they XY males are just brought up girls out of the genital ambiguity but they are biologically male.
mouth breether wrote:
Lol here come the head explosions!
^(*&( for the last time there is NO 2000m WORLD RECORD.
It's a "world best."
broken arrow wrote:
I like Niyonsaba , but this is getting out of hand, I am sure all the T&F governing bodies are starting to sweat bullets right now.
How 'much' do you like 'her'?
Reminds me of the press storm when Semenya returned from the WC in 2009. The head of athletics said "she's a woman"
Trevor Noah parodied this into: "would you sleep with her?"
To which the response from Cheune is: "Not that kind of woman"
RunRagged wrote:
rojo wrote:
https://www.letsrun.com/news/2021/09/2021-zagreb-results-francine-niyonsaba-shatters-2000m-world-record/The LRC report linked to says, "The most newsworthy performance in the meet came in the women’s 2000 where Francine Niyonsaba, who is banned from running in women’s events between 400m and the mile as she is intersex..."
I really wish LRC would use the correct terminology rather than the inaccurate, obfuscating word "intersex." Persons with disorders/differences of sex development or DSDs - aka variations of sex characteristics or VSCs - are not in between the two sexes, a combo of the two sexes or of neither sex; they have specific conditions that affect either male sex development or female sex development. Today, most of the approximately 40 different, discrete DSD conditions are well-described in the medical literature and well-understood; and in nearly all cases, the cause/s of each condition are known too.
Thank you for your informed and easy to understand input. Keep at it.
Armstronglivs wrote:
NERunner0353 wrote:
Hey, Brojos, you know you don't have to insert "intersex" into every caption for Niyonsaba right?
Right at the top of the home page (& every time you cover her): "Niyonsaba, who is banned from running in women's events between 400m and the mile as she is intersex, ran..."
We know this. We know that you have an ideological agenda & a click-bait one to push. But please stop. It's not good journalism. It's not helpful. This is something that you have to write every time she does anything in the sport. It's tired. We get it. Enough already.
Would you prefer the description "male"?
"Male", a word that does not apply to you.
griles17 wrote:
Alfalfas hair wrote:
Quit allowing XY athletes to compete in the women’s (XX) category regardless of testosterone level. This is a sham and it’s bad for our sport.
No. Testosterone is the problem. Not the chromosomes.
There wouldn't be the testosterone without the chromosomes.
Great, the 2000 meter wold record holder is ineligible to compete at 1609 meters.
And by next season, the new 200 meter world record holder will be ineligible to compete at 400 meters.
It's stupid that we're only protecting a few events for women. Return all women's events to women.
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
I’m a D2 female runner. Our coach explicitly told us not to visit LetsRun forums.
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