When will we have a super shoe for the trails?

confused af wrote:

Carbon plates, super foams, all this stuff is limited to the roads, when will we see it on the trails? Nike next% trail? Hoka carbon x trail?

North Face Vectiv

I don't think we will, at least not in the form we see it on the road. Things like high stack, bouncy foam, and stiff carbon plates may help you in a straight line, but I think they'd slow you down more than help on the trail. I like the cushy road shoes, but I still prefer firm and low to the ground on the trails.

Trials to be kept to natural running. Expect rolled ankles from using bouncer tech

Just Another wrote:

I don't think we will, at least not in the form we see it on the road. Things like high stack, bouncy foam, and stiff carbon plates may help you in a straight line, but I think they'd slow you down more than help on the trail. I like the cushy road shoes, but I still prefer firm and low to the ground on the trails.

Not exactly a supershoe, but I found that the Adizero Pros were a killer trail shoe.

They don't have the stack of the Adios Pro / VFN / Endorphin Pro but they are a road shoe that does fine on trails. The Continental Sole works well.

Adidas Speed Ultra. Better grip than the Adizero Pro albeit no carbon, but similar stack heights, more Boost (so maybe like a trail Boston 9). Continental in general is the grippiest outsole.

Nike if they want to do something worthwhile would be better going back to the Peg 36 trail upper with a React foam bottom. They've kind of lost the plot with their line up.

If you want trail shoes with high stack bouncey foam - just wear the Hoka Evo Speedgoats.

The Peg Trail 3 is pretty great IMO. Its not the best shoe for technical trails as it is a little clunky but the upper is far better than v2 and the react foam soaks up the miles. I also think the Wildhorse 7 is a little underrated. Both shoes have worked great for me this summer, putting in 70mpw average on mostly trails.

I am not a HOKA guy but I do have a pair of Speedgoats and they lost all of their bounce within 100 miles and eventually just felt overbuilt and dull. But my main issue with HOKA's is that they all seem built around the same last which just doesnt fit my foot all that well.

I've also tried the North Face Vectiv and while there does seem to be some benefit to the plate it doesnt seem all that much and they just have way too high of an arch for me to go long distances in them.

I would say that the Salomon Pulsar is probably the most 'futuristic' trail shoe out right now. But the midsole does flatten out pretty quickly. For racing ultra distances I still think the Salomon Ultra 3 is king.

trailrunnerbro wrote:

The Peg Trail 3 is pretty great IMO. Its not the best shoe for technical trails as it is a little clunky but the upper is far better than v2 and the react foam soaks up the miles. I also think the Wildhorse 7 is a little underrated. Both shoes have worked great for me this summer, putting in 70mpw average on mostly trails.

Peg 3 has the potential to be an amazing shoe, but fails, for two reasons: No grip (actually dangerous when wet) and too heavy. However, IMO, that react foam was made for trails and is the best midsole out there for trail running. If Nike could just get an outsole that was actually grippy, and drop some weight, it would be easily the best trail running shoe you could buy, especially for long distance events.

I have the Ultra 3's and Pulsars. I like the Pulsar although I think they'd be a better shoe with an insole. The toe box is probably a fraction too high as well. As much as I'd like to like the Ultra 3, they are too firm for my liking. Interested to see what the prototype Francois wore at Hardrock is though.

Never tried the Vectiv because a lot of reviews were saying the upper fit was a bit sloppy. Craft are to high stack. My ankles don't need that.

You'd probably like the Adidas Speed Ultra's. Bit pricey but for me they seem to be in that sweet spot as a do all trail shoe. Very runnable but grippy (I find Vibram to be grippy but a bit dull on firmer ground), not over built in the upper, not too firm, can go long distance.

Where you live, 'bro? That's a lot of foot hardware, thinking you're in Trailsland, for sure.

It sucks too because a few years back the dude won the CCC in the 36. It sucks how much they went away from what was a good shoe with a crap midsole. React and some collab with a tyre company could have made that a top shoe but they've gone more Hypebeast in design rather than sticking to making a good trail shoe.

Joe Jackson wrote:

https://www.craftsports.us/collections/noels-picks/products/men-s-ctm-ultra-carbon?variant=39917764083888

This shoe calls to me, but I don't see any wearing it off-road (other than the models in the Craft site video). Anyone tried this?

Wet has not been an issue here as we have been in a drought all summer. But yes, the grip isn't great. And sure, would love for it to be lighter. I'd really like it if Nike would make a racer that has a normal drop. Really irritating to me how much trail runners are obsessed with 4mm drop shoes, my calves do not appreciate the lower drop at all and yes I've tried to 'transition'.

Waitasec wrote:

I have the Ultra 3's and Pulsars. I like the Pulsar although I think they'd be a better shoe with an insole. The toe box is probably a fraction too high as well. As much as I'd like to like the Ultra 3, they are too firm for my liking. Interested to see what the prototype Francois wore at Hardrock is though.

Never tried the Vectiv because a lot of reviews were saying the upper fit was a bit sloppy. Craft are to high stack. My ankles don't need that.

You'd probably like the Adidas Speed Ultra's. Bit pricey but for me they seem to be in that sweet spot as a do all trail shoe. Very runnable but grippy (I find Vibram to be grippy but a bit dull on firmer ground), not over built in the upper, not too firm, can go long distance.

I have been curious to try the Adidas Speed Ultra, just a little worried for the money its not enough shoe. Is it really that much better than just running in a pair of Bostons on trail? Seems like basically the same shoe but with a trail outsole. If it had a rockplate I'd probably be all in.

It has a midfoot torsion plate, although not sure how big it is because the forefoot is lightstrike which is very flexible and works well for climbs. You can see the torsion if you look at a picture of the outsole - kind of bang in the middle.

If you're keen i'd sign up for Adidas emails and grab some when they do a 30% off sale. Full price is a bit much (Australia they are like $280)

This is Jim Kiler wrote:

Joe Jackson wrote:

https://www.craftsports.us/collections/noels-picks/products/men-s-ctm-ultra-carbon?variant=39917764083888

This shoe calls to me, but I don't see any wearing it off-road (other than the models in the Craft site video). Anyone tried this?

I have. It's...interesting. I think they'd work for gravel paths, but I can't imagine running any kind of technical terrain with them. For a carbon plated shoe, they are also absurdly heavy.

I think some of the tech will make it’s way into the trail world but it won’t be the same and would limit their effectiveness:

1. Soft foams are a liability on the trail, not a benefit

2. Super high stacks are also a liability on the trail

3. One trail shoe will not do all ultras well. Some runnable trail ultras may have some road crossover if they’re “trails” and not real trails, but an Alphafly on something like Hardrock would suck.

4. Use case would have to change and I’m not sure these road racers will cross over well. Trail races aren’t done at marathon paces, there’s a much wider swing of paces within the run. Power hikes. Light super aerobic jogs. Bombing downhill. Rocks, logs, and technical terrain. Supershoes would suck at doing all of the above.

5. Actual running performance matters much much less in an Ultra than a road race. It’s far more of a chess match than a road race.

I’m sure manufacturers are trying, and I could be surprised, but I don’t see a very good crossover. I see the foams making their ways over in some form (like the Saucony shoe posted above) but it won’t be the same as the foams in the road shoes, which likely wouldn’t produce the same effect it’s having on the roads.

I'd believe it. The Adios 3 is still one of my all time favorite trail shoes, even though it's not a trail shoe. I'm now interested in the Speed Ultra that several people have mentioned for the same reason.