There's a big difference between Sifan Hassan and these women.
Privilege versus desire to excel.
One group wants a salary.
The champion wants to earn her wages.
There's a big difference between Sifan Hassan and these women.
Privilege versus desire to excel.
One group wants a salary.
The champion wants to earn her wages.
Witch hunt by any means necessary wrote:
This is dangerous and for all of you that believe this is a just way to ban a man you believe is dirty, then you are as much of problem as dopers! Nothing, and I repeat nothing about this warrants a life time ban. He told, not called, told an ATHLETE, not a female, not a girl, AN ATHLETE that they were fat/overweight/not fit because in order to accomplish HER goals she needed to pay attention to her fitness! I see many are calling this abuse. Lies! You are being sexist. If it were a man you would not be calling it anything other than coaching.
Newsflash, a part of coaching is bullying, as it is currently defined. This is a fact. When a coach says jump, you ask how high. Period. When he/she ask you to do something, it is not optional. It is not a request. If he/she berates you for a less than optimal performance or "body composition" it is necessary for the athletes requested success. It is the coaches responsibility to PUSH you, PULL you, SUPPORT you, and CONVINCE you that your impossible is possible, this not always a nice conversation. They are the living example of your own inner voice, you know the one that screams at you sometimes, calls you out, the one that drags your flaws into the forefront of your consciousness! Sorry ladies and gentleman, banning this man because he is not nice, is not a good thing on any level! It has set a very dangerous precedent too.
A much larger percentage of women suffer from eating disorders than men. I read a study that said that 1/3 of women in the NCAA have suffered from an eating disorder. You can't coach men and women the same because they are not the same. There is a big difference between coaching and abuse and it's a bummer that you don't see that.
Thurston H III wrote:
Aouita 84 wrote:
Agreed. You can't make this stuff up.
Alberto is a unique individual and is VERY driven. He was a fierce competitor. Many on this message board don't and won't understand. If you're not from the same mindset you're going to have issues. I think it was especially difficult for the women, and his approach although abrasive and some say offensive was never a personal one. It came from a strong "Self- Centered" belief that winning was the priority and sugar coating was not an option. Alberto was always on the cutting edge of training and racing with regard to training aids, supplements, and performance enhancers (not illegal).
The damage is done, and so is Alberto.
Hitler was a unique individual and was VERY driven. He was a fierce competitor. Many on this message board don't understand. If your're not from the same mindset you're going to have issues. I think it was especially difficult for the Jewish people and the Brits.
Did you really compare Alberto Salazar to Adolph Hitler? Are you serious? Millions of innocent people, including women and children brutally slaughtered, and you compare that to an obsessed distance running coach?
Hmmm...You need some serious help you S**K F**K!!!
Thurston H III wrote:
The Truth Hurts wrote:
Speaking with some other former members of the NOP, this is absolutely the right call.
I don't mean to kick a man while he's down, but everyone involved have hinted at the idea that he was an absolute bully.
Yeah, the pencil necked elderly punkassbitch salazar was a real tough guy when it came to abusing girls and pasty elfin boys. He'd get his skull thumped if he tried to pull that on a full grown woman or man.
Sounds like someone is bitter. Did your application to NOP get denied by Alberto? Clearly, you're too soft to be a good runner.
Maybe Mommy Joan Hunter can stroke your hair and whisper in your ear how good you are.
Keep suckin' on that pacifier...LOSER!
He's banned, people can debate which accusations are proven and which are not. Never will win this argument. He's gone for all intents and purposes from the coaching part of the sport.
One thing we can say for certain- he has/had absolutely ZERO ability to coach elite level FEMALE distance runners.
He broke every recognized rule in the book for knowing how to motivate women, which is much different than how to motivate men. Read about the methods of Gino Auriemma and Anson Dorrance and compare them to how Alberto coached. There is no problem with creating a stressful, super competitive environment. But Alberto was like a blunt hammer with his simplistic comments and shaming. He FAILED miserably with women and girls in his camp.
Wife says it was/is? a common practice for cheerleaders in HS and college to be regularly weighed. During tryouts weight always came into play. I think I even remember one of those dallas cowboy cheerleader episodes where they talked about a girl trying out and her weight. It certainly didn't get anyone fired. I had a coach who made us run 6 miles in 100+ heat to make us tougher, I guess that was abuse. Certainly not 'safe' sport.
Surely AS wasn't just banned for telling some butt hurt chick to lose a few (not calling anyone out )? Body fat percentage for an ethiopian/kenyan has to be what 1%? Is that the acceptable standard? Like 80+pw for distance runners?
He needs to put out a weight loss video, that would be hilarious.
zcvxzxcv wrote:
I read through all the claims here about what safe sport's procedures are. There was not a single sentence from them here stating that reports are private. I'm not going to go read their code. No one posted that part of it. It's absurd to have a ban without knowing what the ban is for. I'm not in opposition to a ban on Salazar. What we do know is that he was violating rules or twisting them to allow him to violate the spirit of the rules, which is itself a direct violation of the WADA code's language. Hitting on one adult athlete couldn't be the basis for any such ban, because there are many examples of coaches doing that where the athlete accedes to it and so the difference surely cannot be the result--the action itself would be nothing in itself unless the athlete affirms it but no one would know in advance whether that would happen. I'm thinking of Hudson and his marathoner, who had a relationship, and then maybe the Colorado and NAU coaches, and maybe even Mags with Salazar's athlete.
Everything involved with SafeSport is confidential except for public measures, I hope you enjoyed reading the Code.
Bad Wigins wrote:
What if Salazar just refuses to be banned and starts coaching athletes again? Without him showing up at the meets, all they can really do is start banning his athletes. What if it's Rupp and Centrowitz, would USATF really want track any deader than it is now?
Unlike doping bans, SafeSport bans have no consequences for athletes who train with banned coaches.
Once Salazar's doping ban expires, athletes are free to train with him. He just cannot coach at USATF sanctioned events. He can hang out in the Nike VIP area at USAs like Mark Block. He can coach them at the Diamond League meets in Europe. He can coach them at college meets (unless the school trespasses him). He could coach at the Olympics if another Federation credentials him.
olyrun 2 wrote:
Safe Sport is the official body that is banning Salazar. Therefore it is their responsibility to make their report public. It is not the responsibility of the person being banned and certainly not the responsibility of any of the witness's in the case to make the report public.
They have no responsibility to make anything public. Everything SafeSport does is confidential except for public-facing measures. The only reports that have been made public are those leaked by one of the parties involved. The Center makes it hard for the reports to be leaked, they don't send you a copy, you have to view it through a portal and you can't save a copy.
Look whatever your feelings are about this issue, don't get too attached to them. The Center for SafeSport does not have very good lawyers and they lose all the time in arbitration. They do not defend their decisions well. Given that Alberto will have Nike's finest behind him, I am not really expecting this to stick. Hope I'm wrong.
But like I said above, even if this does stick, if Alberto wants to keep coaching, it will be pretty easy for him to do so. USATF's umbrella over the sport is small.
786ytrbnc wrote:
Is anything stopping Al from staging a comeback? His ban says 'coaching,' not 'pulling away from Kipchoge at 22 miles.'
His ban does not say coaching. He is ineligible from participating in the Olympic movement. He cannot compete in USATF sanctioned events, he cannot coach at USATF sanctioned events or practices, he cannot be a meet director of a USATF sanctioned event, etc.
It applies to all of the NGBs. Like he could not participate in USA Triathlon events either.
If he wanted to compete, he could just jump in all the races Lance Armstrong is doing.
polevaultpower wrote:
olyrun 2 wrote:
Safe Sport is the official body that is banning Salazar. Therefore it is their responsibility to make their report public. It is not the responsibility of the person being banned and certainly not the responsibility of any of the witness's in the case to make the report public.
They have no responsibility to make anything public. Everything SafeSport does is confidential except for public-facing measures. The only reports that have been made public are those leaked by one of the parties involved. The Center makes it hard for the reports to be leaked, they don't send you a copy, you have to view it through a portal and you can't save a copy.
Sounds like "SafeSport" is a secret court like FISA that routinely tourtures and murders people. How do we know that the SafeSport Secret Court didn't torture Salazar to extract a confession?
polevaultpower wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:
What if Salazar just refuses to be banned and starts coaching athletes again? Without him showing up at the meets, all they can really do is start banning his athletes. What if it's Rupp and Centrowitz, would USATF really want track any deader than it is now?
Unlike doping bans, SafeSport bans have no consequences for athletes who train with banned coaches.
Once Salazar's doping ban expires, athletes are free to train with him. He just cannot coach at USATF sanctioned events. He can hang out in the Nike VIP area at USAs like Mark Block. He can coach them at the Diamond League meets in Europe. He can coach them at college meets (unless the school trespasses him). He could coach at the Olympics if another Federation credentials him.
Well then. I don't really care for Salazar but neither do I like to see someone railroaded, which this seems to be. If it happens to someone, it can happen to anyone.
In which case, I'm glad USATF will probably just be displaying its cynical impotence once again.
The doping ban was arguably legit, but only for the T-gel part. Coach shouldn't be handing out scripted substances off-label, even if not to an athlete. But that's just a basic ethical thing and doesn't prove he doped his runners.
wejo wrote:
olyrun 1 wrote:
If Safe Sport is going to publicly "ban" Salazar then out of fairness to the process it should also make public their report to show their evidence and which rules were broken. This transparency would give the organization credibility in these matters.
That's what Rojo essentially said in another thread and someone accused him of defending Salazar but I guess Safe Sport was created by Congress and is set up this way where reports aren't made public.
But if we're just being told to trust the process and there is no way to verify anything that is the only option we're left with. Could there be a more transparent way to do this even with allegations of abuse, etc, protecting the victim?
Look he very well should be banned but we can't tell . In the flow chart below I don't even see a point where the accused defends themselves. This is a different process than a criminal trial or even like a sexual assault committee on a campus. This is solely for Olympic sports and Olympic participation right?. Alberto can be banned, but it just means he can't be an official coach. Galen or whoever could keep working with him on their own from what I understand. Looks like a high schooler could work with him. A bit crazy if you ask me.
Maybe because of the limited teeth of the ban it is more focused on erring on the side of caution than being transparent etc.
AW Red and White wrote:
Take a gander at SS's Response and Resolution Process. Note that arbitration, if chosen by sanctioned Respondent, is also private.
https://uscenterforsafesport.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/response-and-resolution-process-2020.pdf
Charlie Francis was in this permanent banned list too, that didn't stop Marion Jones and Tiny Tim from working with him.
flyingfrog wrote:
Wife says it was/is? a common practice for cheerleaders in HS and college to be regularly weighed. During tryouts weight always came into play. I think I even remember one of those dallas cowboy cheerleader episodes where they talked about a girl trying out and her weight. It certainly didn't get anyone fired. I had a coach who made us run 6 miles in 100+ heat to make us tougher, I guess that was abuse. Certainly not 'safe' sport.
Surely AS wasn't just banned for telling some butt hurt chick to lose a few (not calling anyone out )? Body fat percentage for an ethiopian/kenyan has to be what 1%? Is that the acceptable standard? Like 80+pw for distance runners?
He needs to put out a weight loss video, that would be hilarious.
1 percent lol....
Ghost of Viktor Bryzhin wrote:
Charlie Francis was in this permanent banned list too, that didn't stop Marion Jones and Tiny Tim from working with him.
The rules for doping bans have changed since then. Today, if NGB-member athletes train with a coach serving a doping ban, they could be punished.
How was Salazar railroaded? He was afforded opportunity to participate in the investigation as well as have counsel. He also had the right to not participate. He knows who made claims against him which triggered the investigation. He can dispel any of this baloney about being railroaded and the rest by releasing that investigative report. For that matter, any of those who made claims against him can also release the report.
polevaultpower — this may be two months late, or more, but I wanted to thank you for the continuous clarity and insight you provide on this and many other processes.
Nike will do something stupid and give him a title such as Consultant. They sure love drug cheats at NIKE.
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