If it is such a slam dunk to vaccinate young people (

1. There isn't much data on vaccine effectiveness and side effects in children (I'm referring to anyone under 18 as a child here)

2. The body that approves vaccines in the UK has to weigh the balance of risks. As children largely don't suffer from serious problems with Covid, is it worth the risk of the vaccines side effects?

4. But... children still carry the virus even if they don't get seriously ill with it. You can't get to herd immunity if the virus continues to circulate and potentially mutate due to children carrying it

5. However... is the risk greater still if large parts of the global south remain unvaccinated? In that case, the conversation is about whether the UK and other wealthy countries should donate their stockpiles - this isn't Rojo's argument which is about one person forgoing his vaccine, it's about countries donating millions of doses, which would make a difference

Anyway, it's a complex decision, not a spam dunk

I am unvaccinated and get to do all the same things as you and your kids. Funny how that works. You can also still get Covid or complications from the vaccine since we don’t know the long term effects of either and the vaccine is not 100% effective.

Thanks for pushing an emergency approved drug into your kids arm though for what are marginal benefits at best. Parent of the year award goes to you.

The CDC's data suggests that the risk of COVID outweighs the risk of the vaccine (mRNA and JJ) for all age groups under the EUA:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/pdfs/mm7027e2-H.pdf

see table: 2

The UK under (primarily the AZ) vaccine has run different calculations that under a very, low COVID regime suggested that the risk of clotting events was higher than the risk of COVID complications for young adults. This no longer holds obviously, as cases are quite high in the UK.

See the charts here:

https://wintoncentre.maths.cam.ac.uk/news/communicating-potential-benefits-and-harms-astra-zeneca-covid-19-vaccine/

The JCVI's argument is basically "the risk of COVID-caused injury or worse is low in children" without even taking into account the relative risk of the vaccine. Not a very compelling statement, IMO.

FWIW: Europe has always been weirdly skeptical of science. Anti-GMO for no reason. But they love homeopathy. Weird place!

Note: the UK it currently at ~48 cases/10,000 which puts them well into the "high exposure risk" chart.

Considering the high volume of discussion on LRC about the ineffectiveness of government interventions and recommendations related to COVID, I am confused why so many anti-vax people are suddenly taking the government at their word. (Well, I know why, but I digress....)

Can I see data that suggests the risk is higher for the vaccine than COVID? I just provided data to the contrary.

Yawn^9 wrote:

You and rojo are right on this one. The forums are just infested with vaccine trips, fear mongers, and probably a couple paid big pharma slaves like Harambe.

They will probably say the UK and Germany are ignoring science despite those being 2 of the 5 countries actually trust worthy in this world to get some science right.

Rent free, baby, rent free.

Pure propaganda by Big COVID 💰💰💰💰💰💰💰

Just giving credit where credit is due. I figure is bump up your paycheck from Pfizer a bit.

Yawn^9 wrote:

Just giving credit where credit is due. I figure is bump up your paycheck from Pfizer a bit.

I'm flattered by the denier-fearmongers' obsession with my posting.

Harambe wrote:

The CDC's data

The CDC is part of The Swamp, staffed by investors in Big Pharma trying to enrich themselves.

This is the best written article I’ve seen on the topic of vaccinating kids:

https://www.wired.com/story/the-cdc-owes-parents-better-messaging-on-the-vaccine-for-kids/

My kids are all currently too young get vaccinated but even if/when they are approved for their ages I don’t plan on them getting it any time soon. (My wife and I both got our vaccines as soon as we were eligible).

I'm not sure what makes you think I care a fart about your vaccination status or what you think about my parenting skills. But okay. Lol

Dwightarm wrote:

wejo wrote:

I think I'm going to step into it on this one, but no reason to post this anonymously. I think one of the best things about LetsRun is we allow open debate.

Is this an implication that both of you post anonymously here sometimes?

Are either of you part of the crew who stirs up drama/antagonizes and trolls?

This is... oddly upsetting, for some reason.

Lmao, says “Dwightarm”, the guy who is literally posting anonymously.

It says it in the article:

“ The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunization said the health benefits of universal vaccination don’t outweigh the risks for most young people, who typically suffer only mild symptoms of the virus.”

It goes on to discuss at risk groups within the age range still being vaccinated.

There’s something of a power struggle in the UK over the idea of ‘Covid passports’ - requiring proof of full vaccination to engage in certain activities. It’s all but a mandatory vaccination by proxy.

toozy wrote:

It says it in the article:

“ The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunization said the health benefits of universal vaccination don’t outweigh the risks for most young people, who typically suffer only mild symptoms of the virus.”

It goes on to discuss at risk groups within the age range still being vaccinated.

There’s something of a power struggle in the UK over the idea of ‘Covid passports’ - requiring proof of full vaccination to engage in certain activities. It’s all but a mandatory vaccination by proxy.

The JCVI doesn't really justify their decision on that page. They discuss the low risk of adolescent and young adult complications from COVID, but they don't seem to analyze this in comparison to the safety profile of the vaccine.

You can't just say 'low risk, no vaccine needed' if the vaccine is demonstrably better safety-wise than COVID itself. The CDC ran these numbers and decided that, yes, it is. The UK even did this for the AZ vaccine and clotting and decided that unless COVID cases were very low, the vaccine is a net benefit to young adults.

Weird that the JCVI doesn't seem to want to run these numbers.

i'm a scientist wrote:

not in the sense that you mean. you are trying to point out the "grey" areas to create doubt in vaccine efficacy, which COSTS LIVES

Just totally not true. It is better to have an honest discussion about things in the long run I believe. If for example a public health official gives the impression the vaccines are 100% effective and no side effects and then people see people dying who have been vaccinated or people from vaccs getting serious side effects they are then less likely to get vaccinated which I think is a bad thing.

Saying ‘the benefits outweigh the risks’ I think is a better way to get people to get the shots than ‘you’re an idiot not to vaccinate if you’re young’

I think Germany and the UK show this is complicated for kids.

You felt the need to parade your status around on the boards. No one told you too. Idk maybe you just wanted to virtue signal.

Point is you and your family cannot do anything That I also cannot do. You experimented on your kids for nothing. Hope it works out but if they suffer for it, I won’t lose any sleep.