If we were actually following the data and science and weren't selfish, we wouldn't allow Cole Hocker to get vaccinated now

nojodumb wrote:

Rojo is so dumb on this one.

Not only forgetting that many olympians from around the world who will travel to Tokyo are not vaccinated simply because their countries do not have vaccine supplies, but that in the US, everyone who wants a vaccine has access to one.

Translation: Hocker is potentially endangering others out of his own selfishness and most likely misinformed opinion on vaccines. Shameful.

Rojo, your argument is moot and based on absolutely no science what so ever.

Exactly!

rojo wrote:

The vitriol that some of you showed to Cole Hocker was disgusting and lacking in any scientific basis.

It spurred me to write a column. There are HUNDREDS of Millions of elderly and vulnerable people across the globe that aren't vaccinated who need it much more.

I know, right? When trump got the vaccine he was being incredibly selfish. His doctor had stated that trump was the healthiest person on Earth. The coward trump stole a dose from an elderly African.

347893 wrote:

nojodumb wrote:

Rojo is so dumb on this one.

Not only forgetting that many olympians from around the world who will travel to Tokyo are not vaccinated simply because their countries do not have vaccine supplies, but that in the US, everyone who wants a vaccine has access to one.

Translation: Hocker is potentially endangering others out of his own selfishness and most likely misinformed opinion on vaccines. Shameful.

Rojo, your argument is moot and based on absolutely no science what so ever.

Exactly!

Agreed

Ya'll got trolled hard by the troller.

rojo wrote:

Save the outrage for something else. But I really think it happens because the woke want to feel good about themselves and feel that if everyone acted like they did we wouldn’t have this problem.

Er ... you do understand that 'the woke,' together with many others of all kinds of political stripes, have been calling for patent waivers, removing export bans for both vaccines and vaccine ingredients, free flow of know-how and tech transfer from day one?

unquoted quote wrote:

Ya'll got trolled hard by the troller.

And Rojo is the troll

Exactly! Rojo....did you get that?

No, he did not

I was challenging your original statement that we shouldn't be encouraging young, healthy individuals to get vaccinated because elderly across the world haven't be vaccinated. I don't disagree that with your premise that is would be prudent from a humanitarian perspective to distribute the vaccine equitably around the world. At least my understanding was that you werarguing that we should give Hocker a pass because elderly around the world haven't been vaccinated. That seemed to be reflected in your use of the word "encouraging" that you have updated to "allowing". We should 100% be encouraging anyone who can get a vaccine in this country to get one. If we want to also work for a more just vaccine distribution system, that's a separate issue. The problem is that you're taking a theoretical argument and trying to apply it to an actual situation with different facts The global distribution of vaccine has no bearing on whether is is prudent/responsible for Cole Hocker to be vaccinated. You're original article's premise was that people were being too hard on Cole Hocker. Your lead portion of the article was focused on the fact millions haven't been vaccinated around the world. Next you looked at the risk to a young healthy person of Covid. You then concluded that "Those stats prove that it’s actually quite selfish and anti-scientific for people to be demanding that people like Cole Hocker be vaccinated right now". Here again you're trying to apply a theoretical alternative universe to a real situation. This statement really should be retracted or changed as well. I'm a huge Oregon Ducks fan, huge Hocker fan and will be rooting hard for him in the Olympics so I don't have any malice towards him.

Imagine using your 3 year old childs “don’t be mean” logic as a crutch for someone calling you out. We all want Cole to win his race you dolt, we also would like to have the least possible chance of him getting sent home for not being vaccinated, not getting covid, not spreading the virus, etc.

Your bar napkin math sounds good in theory for keeping him unvaccinated to enable someone else to get a vaccine but we don’t live in Sudan. In America he’s not taking someone else’s spot, he’s alleviating the insane cold storage of vaccines on ice waiting to go into Americans arms.

I guess the question for you is: it more patriotic for Cole to get a vaccine, or bring the gold medal home to America?

Trick question. He can do both.

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Harambe wrote:

This is less likely than getting random positive test after travelling halfway around the world.

Oh my god this right here. How in the F--K would you know? Seriously? Honest question you absolute twot - how would you know?

The answer to that is you don't and have zero idea. You, like Hocker, except even less so, have absolutely no clue and for you to harbor an opinion that you clearly believe is a fact is the exact problem with this country and it's people.

Look, we can't know anything for sure, but "absolutely no clue" is incorrect.

We know delta breaks through current vaccines for mild disease at a higher rate (~65-75% protective vs 90-95% for earlier variants). We know cases in the Western world are rising from historic lows to reach somewhat alarmingly high levels (thankfully vaccines are preventing a concomitant spike in severe disease). It's reasonable then to expect that someone traveling to be around people from all over the world (who themselves just traveled for many hours) stands to put themselves at risk of COVID exposure and a positive test.

There is far, far, far less evidence of anything beyond short-term adverse events to the vaccine. Can you feel crappy for a day or two, yes! Is there evidence of fatigue/malaise beyond that? None.

Is it possible? Sure.

This whole thing is a risk calculation. We can't know anything for sure, but given the lack of evidence for vaccine-induced performance problems and plenty of evidence for dramatically increased risk of exposure and infection in the developed world, I am surprised Hocker took this risk.

A positive test and he's basically done for. Why not get as much immunity as you can to avoid that?

Wise Old Man wrote:

For those TRULY interested in science and not propaganda….protection against the dominant variant in the world, delta, is not as good with prior natural infection as vaccination. The Cleveland Clinic study cited by others was prior to delta. Follow the science. If you do, you know that Hocker, and everybody else should get vaccinated regardless if they had the virus before.

Here is a sample. If Rojo wants to learn more and revise his opinion piece, he should contact me. Yes, Hocker could time his vaccine doses and preserve his awesome kick. Not getting vaccinated is dumb and probably it should be mandated to force dummies to do the right thing.

The good doctor and everyone else second-guessing Hocker's decision is way out of line. None of you have access to his medical records. You do not know what type of allergic reactions he's had in the past. You do not know if he has had a blood disorder. You do not know if he has an auto-immune disorder. Neither does his coach know everything about his medical conditions. His medical conditions and history are his personal business to discuss with his health care providers, and the Japanese government has not required the vaccine to compete. He gets to run.

Of course there could be a valid reason. However why would he publicize the issue and not mention it? Surely he knew it would attract speculation.

He definitely gets to run but most here see it as an unusual risk to take.

Regardless, this is sports, wild speculation about athletes is part of the fun.

When the FDA approves these currently experimental vaccines then I will consider it. That may be what Hocker is waiting for too. The FDA will then have to disclose side effects and all data in regards to it. Why there’s such a propaganda of social pressure to get it is beyond me. If you’re fat, old, or have bad lungs then yeah maybe take the chance. But if not you likely have a greater chance to die in a car accident. But like most things this is both political/money driven. You better believe the big pharma lobbyists just want it pushed on people.

Quote Post. wrote:

Rojo,

You want us to take you up on a bet based on a fictional hypothetical that you control the rules and facts over? No.

I’ll do you one better, Rojo. I bet you $1000 that a “virology expert” will disagree with the premise of your bet and your original post in this thread.

I bet you won’t respond

I control the rules and facts over? No. I'm just using the facts I put in my article.

I said I'll bet you. And I most definitely will respond. I wnat to make some big time cash. We call up 10 virology experts and ask them the following.

"We need you to help settle a debate. Please tell me if the following statement is true or false. If we were truly following the science, we would first offer the Covid-19 vaccine to all of the world's senior citizens before we offered it to healthy 20 year old Americans."

I mean how in the world can anyone deny that. The death rate for a 65 year old is at least 95 times higher.

Who is going to make the calls and how do we decide who counts as an expert?

rojo wrote:

Quote Post. wrote:

Rojo,

You want us to take you up on a bet based on a fictional hypothetical that you control the rules and facts over? No.

I’ll do you one better, Rojo. I bet you $1000 that a “virology expert” will disagree with the premise of your bet and your original post in this thread.

I bet you won’t respond

I control the rules and facts over? No. I'm just using the facts I put in my article.

You meant the facts that you made up? Got it

rojo wrote:

Quote Post. wrote:

Rojo,

You want us to take you up on a bet based on a fictional hypothetical that you control the rules and facts over? No.

I’ll do you one better, Rojo. I bet you $1000 that a “virology expert” will disagree with the premise of your bet and your original post in this thread.

I bet you won’t respond

Who is going to make the calls and how do we decide who counts as an expert?

I and everyone else here is making the call RIGHT NOE that you are not an expert

Quote Post. wrote:

rojo wrote:

I control the rules and facts over? No. I'm just using the facts I put in my article.

You meant the facts that you made up? Got it

Rojo literally created hypothetical situations for a bet based on made up facts and now thinks he’s an expert

Hocker, allowed to go to Japan and spread Covid free and wide. Not allowed to return to school without a vaccination.

Japan should have required vaccination to complete at the Olympics.