Hocker needs a 3:40 race to guarantee selection

It's just occurred to me that the Olympic qualifying time system doesn't favour US college athletes in certain events. Forget the sprints. That's run as hard as you can type racing but in, say the 1500m, college racing will be tactical stuff which doesn't often lead to fast times. For example, while non-college athletes are running in races with pace-makers, has Hocker even been in a race this year with a pace maker? Something to ponder.

ringo-starr wrote:

Before this "get in on world rankings" business, my memory is that USATF sometimes has - and sometimes has not - allowed people to chase the standard after the trials.

But not this year. After the parts you quoted, the rules go on to say that once the Trials are over, any vacancies will be filled using the WA Qualified Athlete list.

Here is what they say. (They are badly written, so I reformatted them to make the requirements clearer.)):

"If, after the close of the 2020 U.S. Olympic Trials, there is a place...on the 2020 U.S. Olympic Team that has not been filled, USATF will enter an athlete... based upon:

1) their rank order of place finish at the 2020 U.S. Olympic Trials, and

2) who are on the July 1, 2021 list of World Athletics Qualified Athletes*.

Here is what we wrote about it in our recap. https://www.letsrun.com/news/2021/06/mens-1500-semifinals-the-epic-final-everyone-wanted-is-all-set-minus-hobbs-kessler/

I think it's clear Hocker didn't get great guidance on this. Coach may have been unclear like us or just thought it would all work out or something -- and it still might. But unnecessary stress going into the final needing a place and a certain time. Have to think all these Oregon boys could have pulled him to a sub 3:35 in some throwaway meet in May. But, so it goes.

Rojo, Tastes Like Chicken has a good point. It isn't clear to me that chasing the standard after the Trials is allowed.

ringo-starr wrote:

Rojo, Tastes Like Chicken has a good point. It isn't clear to me that chasing the standard after the Trials is allowed.

Again, if it isn't allowed, why the f*** not! This is the post-college racing time when the likes of Hocker can run in Diamond league races with pace-makers, and almost guarantee getting the qualifying time.

Find Jesus

portsea57 wrote:

ringo-starr wrote:

Rojo, Tastes Like Chicken has a good point. It isn't clear to me that chasing the standard after the Trials is allowed.

Again, if it isn't allowed, why the f*** not! This is the post-college racing time when the likes of Hocker can run in Diamond league races with pace-makers, and almost guarantee getting the qualifying time.

What Diamond League "race" would you like him to enter prior to the end of the qualification period?

Bloody HELL! Please concentrate! The US college system - which the Olympic Committee should be aware of - doesn't have paced races, and so how can college athletes get the qualifing times in a bunch of tactical races. This situation is highlighted by NCAA athlete Nuguse having to make a solo effort to get the qualifying time. An effort that probably lost him the final.

ekmiles wrote:

I think it's clear Hocker didn't get great guidance on this....

Maybe, but his teammate Teare managed to get the 5000 standard, so someone in Eugene was paying attention.

Maybe Hocker got good guidance and ignored it. Or maybe he tried for the standard and just couldn't get it.

itsgonnahappenrelaz wrote:

With 3 guys who absolutely need the standard and have zero shot at making it in with their world ranking , I just can’t see a scenario where It goes slower than 3:40. The last 2 Olympic trials were won in 3:35/3:34 because there were guys who didn’t have the standard that wanted to go for the Olympic dream.

Wynne has the standard but doesn’t have as great a kick as others in the race. I could see the two other Beasts without the standard, Ribich and Suliman, trying to take it out fast to give Wynne a shot at top 3.

Tastes Like Chicken wrote:

ekmiles wrote:

I think it's clear Hocker didn't get great guidance on this....

Maybe, but his teammate Teare managed to get the 5000 standard, so someone in Eugene was paying attention.

Maybe Hocker got good guidance and ignored it. Or maybe he tried for the standard and just couldn't get it.

That was just the way the NCAA final played out. Teare did not drive the pace of the race.

Eyes are looking Goodr wrote:

This is so dumb…why doesn’t his 3:50 mile count for anything? That converts to like 3:32.

ya, you have to fire somebody in the ranking system. or a lot of people.

ncaa champ, and 350 mile, and beaten big names.

if that does not compute to a decent ranking, then, well, you get out the gilotine.

You can’t use a mile time. The don’t do conversions in swimming either where it would make more sense. There is no reason he couldn’t have run sub 3:35. He just didn’t make it a priority. Bad planning, sorry. If he is left off the team that is his own fault. Like falling in the steeple or false starting.

portsea57 wrote:

Bloody HELL! Please concentrate! The US college system - which the Olympic Committee should be aware of - doesn't have paced races, and so how can college athletes get the qualifing times in a bunch of tactical races. This situation is highlighted by NCAA athlete Nuguse having to make a solo effort to get the qualifying time. An effort that probably lost him the final.

The person who needs to concentrate is yourself because you're making no sense. That is unless spreading your tears on the board is making sense to you.

longjack wrote:

Eyes are looking Goodr wrote:

This is so dumb…why doesn’t his 3:50 mile count for anything? That converts to like 3:32.

ya, you have to fire somebody in the ranking system. or a lot of people.

ncaa champ, and 350 mile, and beaten big names.

if that does not compute to a decent ranking, then, well, you get out the gilotine.

Hocker has beaten people with the standard in non-prelim races, and ran way under the standard in a mile-equivalent race. If Hocker gets top 3 and doesn't make it, then all that shows is a ridiculous flaw in the rules because clearly he has shown he deserves to get in but can't because of a technicality.

Hocker fanboys crying cause he couldn't run 3:34. If he wanted to make the olympic team, he shoulda tried getting the olympic standard.

fada tyme wrote:

portsea57 wrote:

Bloody HELL! Please concentrate! The US college system - which the Olympic Committee should be aware of - doesn't have paced races, and so how can college athletes get the qualifing times in a bunch of tactical races. This situation is highlighted by NCAA athlete Nuguse having to make a solo effort to get the qualifying time. An effort that probably lost him the final.

The person who needs to concentrate is yourself because you're making no sense. That is unless spreading your tears on the board is making sense to you.

Oh dear! Is it tunnel vision or simply stupidity! Something isn't right here! 1) The US college system works against their athletes in certain events gaining qualifying times because of no pace-making which CLEARLY favours non-college athletes who compete in paced races. That is a fact! 2) Why are the trials held so close to the qualifying cut off date? Why not arrange things so an athlete like Hocker has time to run in paced races after the trials.

It is all so badly thought through.

dont care wrote:

Hocker fanboys crying cause he couldn't run 3:34. If he wanted to make the olympic team, he shoulda tried getting the olympic standard.

It was his coach's responsibility to arrange a race where he could hit the standard. Obviously his first concern was making sure Hocker was peaking for the NCAAs. That's why he probably didn't help set a field that could set a fast pace in either the Oregon Relays or the Oregon Twilight meet. Either of those would have been the most logical place to try it. Pac 12s they were going for points.

As for hitting 3:40 or better tomorrow- I will be very surprised. It's going to be around 110 or 111. Think someone will go out with a fast pace? Ain't gonna happen. With all due respect to Emily Sisson 85 is very different from 110. What they should have done is moved the 1500 to follow the 5K. In fact, they should have moved the whole freakin meet to the morning. But here we are.