Ross Tucker thoughts RE Shelby Houlihan

RunRagged wrote:

Well, ok then wrote:

Ross Tucker has provided expert testimony for CAS (see glossary), so it's doubtful he's less influential than you.

Ross Tucker is a fair-minded, intelligent, well-spoken sports scientist who knows his stuff & is widely respected internationally by a large number of people who are interested in sports matters for a variety of reasons. He is also an excellent communicator with a particular knack for breaking down & explaining complex, contentious issues in a clear, evenhanded manner. His Science of Sport website, podcasts & Twitter feed are a treasure trove of valuable info & insight.

In short, he's a tad more influential than you. He's also not the kind of bloke to harrumph & grouse that anyone he hasn't heard of before must be a nobody who knows nothing.

LOL, "Disko Eric", an anonymous nobody that can't understand conversations on twitter and believes he is more influential than a educated, credentialed, long standing authority on doping related matters.

gmafb

Ross Tucker is a hack.

"WAY over"? all the reporting I've seen says she was precisely at the the threshold for a positive test. Where are you getting this? you can't just make stuff up.

wistfully124 wrote:

Of course they want to give Shelby the benefit of the doubt, this is white privilege in action. Anybody black or brown that got the same conviction would IMMEDIATELY be seen as guilty. Gotta love that white privilege.

100.

I don't always agree with Tucker but he's spot on here. Clearly the "other side" felt that the 4 year ban was the right call when considering the evidence. But because they're not a beloved/well respected running team, they're not doing PR damage control. Nike/BTC is going on the offensive & is controlling the narrative. Anybody immediately buying it is ignoring that they could have agreed with everything being messaged now & cleared her if they thought it was just a tainted burrito.

They're also looking at her biological passport, where about failures, etc. Something didn't add up here.

rocket ship wrote:

I agree with you. But Ajee Wilson and Brenda Martinez were able to simple show receipts and claim tainted beef and they got off with nothing. I'm saying they want to have receipts ready to try using as an excuse even though the food is clean.

It's because it's Nandrolone. AIU and CAS do not buy that what Shelby was popped for (and how much of it) could be explained by tainted meat. That wasn't the case for USADA in the other cases (and WADA has raised the threshold in some cases). We should see an explanation soon, but every doping case is different.

sanchobaile wrote:

Shelgone wrote:

Stop the narrative that ingesting a normal amount of food will trigger a positive test. This is a lie. There is an allowed limit for a reason and Shelby was WAY over. The testing agency is a professional organization whos job it is to catch cheaters. It is quite unfortunate that Shelby was using but the facts are facts. No one on this board would believe her if she was from another country or from NOP.

"WAY over"? all the reporting I've seen says she was precisely at the the threshold for a positive test. Where are you getting this? you can't just make stuff up.

Link please.

RunRagged wrote:

Well, ok then wrote:

Ross Tucker has provided expert testimony for CAS (see glossary), so it's doubtful he's less influential than you.

Ross Tucker is a fair-minded, intelligent, well-spoken sports scientist who knows his stuff & is widely respected internationally by a large number of people who are interested in sports matters for a variety of reasons. He is also an excellent communicator with a particular knack for breaking down & explaining complex, contentious issues in a clear, evenhanded manner. His Science of Sport website, podcasts & Twitter feed are a treasure trove of valuable info & insight.

In short, he's a tad more influential than you. He's also not the kind of bloke to harrumph & grouse that anyone he hasn't heard of before must be a nobody who knows nothing.

He sounds like a boring fella. Now Twitter hs valuable info? I guess gossip IS considered reliable info now. Btw, yes, I know all the cool people and Mr Tucker is not in the cool group. #nerdalert

Ajee got off because her substance was something no one ever uses for performance enhancing, and was indeed a trace amount.

Brenda's depression medication was tainted and again, a trace amount.

Shelby is not a trace amount. I got hand it to Nike ... If you don't follow T&F closely and can't see through the lawyer-ese, her story sounds plausible.

RunRagged wrote:

Well, ok then wrote:

Ross Tucker has provided expert testimony for CAS (see glossary), so it's doubtful he's less influential than you.

Ross Tucker is a fair-minded, intelligent, well-spoken sports scientist who knows his stuff & is widely respected internationally by a large number of people who are interested in sports matters for a variety of reasons. He is also an excellent communicator with a particular knack for breaking down & explaining complex, contentious issues in a clear, evenhanded manner. His Science of Sport website, podcasts & Twitter feed are a treasure trove of valuable info & insight.

In short, he's a tad more influential than you. He's also not the kind of bloke to harrumph & grouse that anyone he hasn't heard of before must be a nobody who knows nothing.

I wouldn't say fair-minded, as he has clearly had an ax to grind for a few athletes over the years. It's true that he's more influential than pretty much anyone who posts on LRC though.

So nobody at Nike thought to caution athletes about meat consumption, especially the red meats?

How hard can it be to just opt for the beans?

Shelgone wrote:

Stop the narrative that ingesting a normal amount of food will trigger a positive test. This is a lie. There is an allowed limit for a reason and Shelby was WAY over. The testing agency is a professional organization whos job it is to catch cheaters. It is quite unfortunate that Shelby was using but the facts are facts. No one on this board would believe her if she was from another country or from NOP.

Your statement makes no sense. We haven't even seen the decision so you are writing with facts you don't have. The reality is the testing agencies also suspended Lawosn but that was overturned.

Do you not think people can be wrongly convicted? I don't know if that happened here.

And the other country crap is false. One thing that was brought up by Shelby's lawyer is the head of US antidoping recently went on the Australian equivalent of 60 minutes to speak on behalf of a swimmer who apparently is being banned but claiming contaminated food.

We are about to publish a great piece from Jonathan Gault. One reason why people are more passionate about Houlihan is many people on here know here, or know Jerry S. If you think you know someone's character, your much more likely to be outraged.

Like come on. It's common sense.. If a kid I caoched at Cornell was accused of a crime, there are certain people I'd feel instantly, "No way." There would be others, I'd think, "Maybe." Would my gut instant reaction always be right? Hell no. But that's why we do it.

But that's why I've been argueing with our own staff about Jama Aden. Someone heard Gidey is coached by Aden. I said, "Well waht if she if. If they raided his hotel and didn't bust him, then we have to at some point let him back into the sport don't we?" Now I can still be suspicious but yes we shouldn't have double standards of assuming everyone we know is clean and everyone we dont' know isn't.

Disko Eric wrote:

Sorry. I can’t read in Twitter. It’s irritating to even try to understand a conversation with the (made up) acronyms, abbreviations, bad spelling, missing words and poor context.

Twitter should be short and sweet. “Had lunch at Taco Bell. It was da bomb.”

Long rants are for Facebook.

Maybe you should have posted this on Facebook then.

Does the CAS overturn tainted meat things all the time. It get that it's much easier to get popped for clenbuterol contamination but it seems like they err on the side of plausible deniability a lot.

I agree with Ross. The 4 year ban hammer suggests they weren't buying even a shred of it.

Any other cases for nandrolone + meat specifically people know of?

wistfully124 wrote:

Of course they want to give Shelby the benefit of the doubt, this is white privilege in action. Anybody black or brown that got the same conviction would IMMEDIATELY be seen as guilty. Gotta love that white privilege.

Like Ajee Wilson who wasnt banned?

rojo wrote:

Someone heard Gidey is coached by Aden. I said, "Well waht if she if. If they raided his hotel and didn't bust him, then we have to at some point let him back into the sport don't we?" Now I can still be suspicious but yes we shouldn't have double standards of assuming everyone we know is clean and everyone we dont' know isn't.

Haile Eyasu as far as I know has been and is her coach. You keep throwing out this unsourced Jama Aden thing and I would suggest stop throwing it out there with no evidence when you're just using it as an example (and the athlete doesn't matter anyhow).

Any chance you may put out an updated article with the facts/most recent updates? There is some much information/misinformation I don’t know what to believe?

Actually, everyone that produces top performances has to be suspect by default. Distance running is not a new sport nor does it have a high barrier to entry (cycling, hockey for instance).

Therefore when people set records in things very commonly contested, and for which fame and money are on the line, then you automatically have "smoke."

It has been proven time and again in cycling. You might think "well that's just cycling" and I would say ... no, that's because cycling involves stage races in which YOU MUST RISK DOPING during the stage race to "top up." I'm speaking specifically of grand tours, those of 3 weeks in length.

Therefore cyclist get popped more because there is less wiggle room to do it behind closed doors. With running, and especially these athletes that do not compete often, they can (micro) dope for weeks and months, then taper off and be clean for the Olympics, where the fruit has already ripened.

You are also very "avoidant" of the race part of this. How many here do you think actually "know" Shelby or Jerry. Not many. It is more like because they are American and White that some have unconscious bias for them.

rojo wrote:

If you think you know someone's character, your much more likely to be outraged.

If people think they know someone's character based on some instagram posts they're delusional.

rojo wrote:We are about to publish a great piece from Jonathan Gault. One reason why people are more passionate about Houlihan is many people on here know here, or know Jerry S. If you think you know someone's character, your much more likely to be outraged.

Does Jerry Schumacher's statement that he's never heard of nandrolene raise any doubts for you about his character?

I'd have thought any long term T&F coaches would have heard of it given it was the drug that ended Linford Christie's career in the late 1990s.