Can you run tempo/steady everyday?

sikeloitheone wrote:

We all have the speed needed to break world records from 2 miles and up without any special effort. What’s difficult is to be able to conquer the mental and physical discipline of maintaining the tempo "

So you say no extra speed work is necessary?

lexel wrote:

sikeloitheone wrote:

We all have the speed needed to break world records from 2 miles and up without any special effort. What’s difficult is to be able to conquer the mental and physical discipline of maintaining the tempo "

So you say no extra speed work is necessary?

That was Ron Clarke's argument. And he makes a decent case with it. Full article:

lexel wrote:

sikeloitheone wrote:

We all have the speed needed to break world records from 2 miles and up without any special effort. What’s difficult is to be able to conquer the mental and physical discipline of maintaining the tempo "

So you say no extra speed work is necessary?

As stated by someone else those were not my words. Ron Clarcke was quoted.

As a personal experience. 2 weeks ago I wanted to replace the longer effort I have been running so far every 10/15 days with something shorter due to heat and humidity. Decided to run 10x500m on the shaded park loop I use. Ran an average of 98" per 500m off of 90" rest. No previous strides,hill sprints, fast short reps, interval sessions of any kind at any point. Only moderate/hardish runs out of the door and some weights after a 8 year hiatus from running.

keepgoing wrote:

That was Ron Clarke's argument. And he makes a decent case with it. Full article:

http://blogs.teamtbb.com/mathieuohalloran/2012/03/14/the-myth-of-long-slow-running-by-ron-clarke/

Speed is a neuromuscular thing , a brain thing, but it seems to be endurance also . (see central governeur theory by Tim Nokes)

An interesting thing, but from the logic i would say stamina over speed, because if you can hold a hard pace longer the brain learns longer.

Cavorty wrote:

I don't think it's the optimal way to train when you are getting ready to race, but I think it is a good way to get in to decent basic shape fairly quickly.

This is a good comment.

i love this old post from antonio cabral:

"The runner that i coach and that did 13:36 with a full time Job occupatioon (7 hours a day – 5 times a week) that´s Rui Lopes. The name may not say noting to you, but the moment that he did that and what did keep my attention and I did try to analyse that´s why with 40-45min continuous runs every day and 1 “weak” workout as Control test once a week (Ex: 4X1000m 2:50-2:52 average 4 min intervals).

Thus that´s very easy to remember his weekly traning schedule

Monday,Tuesday, Thurday and Friday – 40-45min continuous runs going a few times in 3:10 by kilo.

Wednesday – 30min warmup + 4-5X1000m in 2:50-2:52 avarege range with 4min intervals

Saturday and Sunday (if ther´s no weekend competition) – the same 40-45min.

If thare´s a weekend competition – Saturday: 20min easy and Sunday – competition.

I asked to myself – if he is not able to run faster that that in workouts (2:50/kilo that´s 14:10 5000m pace) then why he did 13:36? We were in the early 80s and I didn´t know yet what are LT runs, but it took my attention that the runner did every 45min very fast than their teammates – his continuous runs weren´t easy jogs, but tempo runs.

The history of that run is that he got a good team contract change from my advise to another coach he did start training twice a day and more training volume, more track workouts. Result: Actually he is a 47 years old man, but his PB still remains 13:36 !"

Are Nakkim was a great runner in Norway during the 90's. He trained very simple. He did 8km morning every day and then 16km evening, both @3.40-20 (depending on the feel). Then he did simple workouts like 6x1000 @2.42-2.45. 3 times a week instead of the 16km of course. He was consistent at 13.20 5k and PB 27.32 in 10k. So he was doing 1ks at 5k/10k pace.

He was also good at 3000 hurdles.

But research does not support that the same same over time is the optimal. The same over time might give good consistency which is very important since injury breaks are really detrimental to improvement.

Consistency makes the time of improvement and the sum of improvements large, even if improvement is lower than optimal per time. Variation is gives more adaptation than the simple and same. 2 large workouts gives more than 4 smaller ones. A short special block gives more than spread out. Working on all different steps/paces gives a more solid foundation than a simple easy/moderate or fast. The problem with this is that the risk of injury and the complexity of the training program goes way up.

So it is up to a strategic decision over consistent improvement over a long time. I experiment with adding cross-training volume instead of more running milage and on doing short block training focusing on one adaptation at a time (with minimum maintenance of the others). So there are ways, but too little experience maybe.

Jakob Ingebrigtsen is a result of consistency and gradual and controlled progression. Simple, yet a complete thought and philosophy. He does not seem injury prone either. He also uses principles that are not optimal from a research perspective, but consistency is king?

While the content of the post would be great if true, it is a lie.

Cabral never coached elite athletes and there is no Rui Lopes with a 13:36 on the Portuguese all time list.

Cabral is known for his lies.

I know a guy who went abroad for almost a year and he had no chance to compete.

His training was basically running 10 km fast almost every single day. Occasionally he would run 16 km (10 miles) or even 12 km (7.5 miles) but that would be the exception, maybe 3 or 4 times a month only.

His runs were always, and I mean really always, under 4:00/km (6:26/mi)

This guy had a 34:40 10 km PR and during this time he managed to run a 35:20 10 km on his regular (well measured) route, with forest paths, a few hills and a couple of roads where he had to slow down before crossing (I know these details because I ran there with him a couple of times when visiting).

So he did a 10km lactate threshold (give or take) every day.

He soon reached close to his PR shape and managed to stay in that shape for months.

I believe that, based on my own experience.

As we were young my friend and me, we were at similar shape and we did running every second day. And always at lactat hreshold only. At this time we did not kwnow how it was called, but it was comfortable hard. We had no base but we could stand that. Very quick we stagnated.

Back in presence, 2 days ago i did a tempo run about 40 minutes (excluding warm up and cool down of course), and i did it just based on feeling. It was the best tempo run since long time ...

Threshold every day seems a bit too much. Perhaps the pace right before max LASS occurs? In any case the point seems to be you can improve your conditioning and get in decent shape by running at paces faster than the agreed upon recovery pace consistently without the need for traditional intervals.

lexel wrote:

I believe that, based on my own experience.

As we were young my friend and me, we were at similar shape and we did running every second day. And always at lactat hreshold only. At this time we did not kwnow how it was called, but it was comfortable hard. We had no base but we could stand that. Very quick we stagnated.

Back in presence, 2 days ago i did a tempo run about 40 minutes (excluding warm up and cool down of course), and i did it just based on feeling. It was the best tempo run since long time ...

Why running every second day? Perhaps you were running yourself into the ground due to lack of self knowledge and were unable to manage volume/intensity? How fast were you increasing volume? Certainly you'll agree when intensity is capped it's a lot easier to manage others variables.

sikeloitheone wrote:

Why running every second day? Perhaps you were running yourself into the ground due to lack of self knowledge and were unable to manage volume/intensity? How fast were you increasing volume? Certainly you'll agree when intensity is capped it's a lot easier to manage others variables.

We were both no designated runners, we did it for fitness and fun.

We had no trainer, no training plan, there was no internet, but we had fun.

Every second day because it was quite exausting to hammer down each time. I guess sometimes even above LT for 50-60 minutes long.

srjdudy wrote:

While the content of the post would be great if true, it is a lie.

Cabral never coached elite athletes and there is no Rui Lopes with a 13:36 on the Portuguese all time list.

Cabral is known for his lies.

Too right. It's sad that some people continue to believe that Antonio was some sort of elite coach and that this website continues to have a profile portraying Antonio as such. Antonio was notorious in Portugal for being a complete joke of a coach and no serious runner ever went near him as he was a known BSer. Antonio claimed to have a run 3'39" for 1500m - while in reality this was closer to what he could run for 1km LOL. Once Antonio was outed on these boards he stopped posting which shows you why he was posting in the first place.

srjdudy wrote:

While the content of the post would be great if true, it is a lie.

Cabral never coached elite athletes and there is no Rui Lopes with a 13:36 on the Portuguese all time list.

Cabral is known for his lies.

really? this is new to me.

wisenheimer_at work wrote:

srjdudy wrote:

While the content of the post would be great if true, it is a lie.

Cabral never coached elite athletes and there is no Rui Lopes with a 13:36 on the Portuguese all time list.

Cabral is known for his lies.

really? this is new to me.

Antonio is a pathological liar. Look up the Portuguese rankings:

There is no Rui Lopes, and there is no Antonio Cabral (who claimed to have run a national 1500m record of 3'39"xx in the 1970s).

Antonio has never coached any Portuguese elites; he is in fact notoriously bad and the less said about his coaching results in Portugal the better.

I did this in high school my junior and senior year. We had an old-school coach in the early 80s who had us running intervals just about every day, and nothing was longer than "880."

Nearly every day in the summers I'd go at least 1.5 or 2 miles hard, and once the season started I got out every morning for a 4-miler at whatever hard pace I was up for that day. I'd go to afternoon practices and run the moderate interval session.

I did better at state my senior year than anyone before, or since, at my high school. I tipped off my coach after state track the next season that I was running a lot of "sustained" runs - the word "tempo" hadn't been invented yet. The next season, I later discovered, my former team did nothing but "sustained" runs.

So the 90s was my fault.

Jon Arne Glomsrud

Do you have any info on the Norwegian lactate levels they usually target?

im guessing the main break points are 2.0/3.5 mmol on most threshold work, depending if youre working the Aerobic Threshold or the Lactate Threshold.

I wish i could find all of M Bakkens old musings. Could only find some back and forth with him and Cabral and it wasnt comprehensive.