Can you run tempo/ steady everyday?
If so how do you define tempo/steady?
I run 60 miles/ week all 60-30 second of M pace.
Can you run tempo/ steady everyday?
If so how do you define tempo/steady?
I run 60 miles/ week all 60-30 second of M pace.
That would be like a 2:50 marathoner doing all his running at 7:00-7:30/mile - which is, actually, pretty typical. Probably a bit too fast for easy days, but this is basically what 75% of young male runners do. (Unless you mean 30-60 seconds faster than M pace, which means a 2:50 marathoner doing all his running at 5:30-6:00/mile, which would mean a marathoner with utterly crap results for all the fast running he's doing.)
Running steady rather than easy pace every day is sub-optimal training because it does not allow for enough modulation of effort. You need some easy running in there to recover enough to go hard in workouts occasionally.
Why easy + hard is better than steady/tempo? Why effort modulation has better results?
colder and wiser wrote:
That would be like a 2:50 marathoner doing all his running at 7:00-7:30/mile - which is, actually, pretty typical. Probably a bit too fast for easy days, but this is basically what 75% of young male runners do. (Unless you mean 30-60 seconds faster than M pace, which means a 2:50 marathoner doing all his running at 5:30-6:00/mile, which would mean a marathoner with utterly crap results for all the fast running he's doing.)
Running steady rather than easy pace every day is sub-optimal training because it does not allow for enough modulation of effort. You need some easy running in there to recover enough to go hard in workouts occasionally.
Tempo runs wrote:
Can you run tempo/ steady everyday?
If so how do you define tempo/steady?
This is the best way into an overtraining. Set the clock how long it takes from now.
velocity Tempo is for me around vLT *1,05. e.g. 5min/km (LT pace) , vTempo = 05:15 min/km (around)
Tempo runs wrote:
Why easy + hard is better than steady/tempo?
Why effort modulation has better results?
colder and wiser wrote:
That would be like a 2:50 marathoner doing all his running at 7:00-7:30/mile - which is, actually, pretty typical. Probably a bit too fast for easy days, but this is basically what 75% of young male runners do. (Unless you mean 30-60 seconds faster than M pace, which means a 2:50 marathoner doing all his running at 5:30-6:00/mile, which would mean a marathoner with utterly crap results for all the fast running he's doing.)
Running steady rather than easy pace every day is sub-optimal training because it does not allow for enough modulation of effort. You need some easy running in there to recover enough to go hard in workouts occasionally.
Simply because very high intensity workouts are necessary for optimal training, and you can't run as fast if you're not rested enough.
Steady isn't hard effort.
30-60 seconds slower than M pace isn't hard.
Search for ‘Derek Clayton’ and ‘Lydiard base training’.
Worked for this guy
https://www.coacheseducation.com/xc/jack_farrell_july_00.php
Ron Clarke, too. Solinsky was also known for hammering all the time.
I think this works fine as long as you aren't also trying to do killer workouts.
I did this basically all of high school and college and it didn't work out well.
I am able to run as fast as back then now off of just three runs a week. I had to eliminate easy days altogether because I always ran them too fast. I wish I would have found what works for me back then when I was a little lighter and my body was more resilient.
Tempo runs wrote:
Why easy + hard is better than steady/tempo?
There are countless books on this. Read 1 or 2.
Here's the tldr version: People have tried your way. Others have tried the easy (80%) + hard (20%) way. The guys doing your way aren't the ones winning races.
You may have a better average daily run pace on strava and feel better about yourself. And that's fine, if that's your goal. But the guys training maximally are going to have a faster gear to shift into, and be able to sustain it, come race day.
CoachB wrote:
Worked for this guy
https://www.coacheseducation.com/xc/jack_farrell_july_00.php
Interesting read. I think for off-season, that is a good idea. Not so sure about during the season.
CoachB wrote:
Worked for this guy
https://www.coacheseducation.com/xc/jack_farrell_july_00.php
Interesting article but my interpretation of what this coach is recommending lots of Lydiard (LSD "comfort zone") training, which sounds a lot different than what the OP is talking about. The OP mentions running tempo pace all the time.
Tempo runs wrote:
Can you run tempo/ steady everyday?
If so how do you define tempo/steady?
I run 60 miles/ week all 60-30 second of M pace.
No.
Also running 30-60 seconds/mile slower than M every day is one way to stagnate in the sport. Pretty much grey zone running where you're not seeing benefits. I think that pace is fine a handful of times a week and has its place in a long run. But you need to spend time at race pace and faster, which should slow down some of your easy days if you're doing it right.
GettingFasterDude wrote:
Tempo runs wrote:
Why easy + hard is better than steady/tempo?
There are countless books on this. Read 1 or 2.
Here's the tldr version: People have tried your way. Others have tried the easy (80%) + hard (20%) way. The guys doing your way aren't the ones winning races.
You may have a better average daily run pace on strava and feel better about yourself. And that's fine, if that's your goal. But the guys training maximally are going to have a faster gear to shift into, and be able to sustain it, come race day.
Ron Clarke won a lot of races with his moderately hard (like 10 miles in 50-52 min) approach with only a few workouts. Nenow also did pretty well for himself.
Sorry but we're not elite runners so "winning" isn't part of what we're talking about here. You didn't explain why you get better performance though following easy hard and most importantly you didn't mention the risk of injuries associated with hard sessions. Got any answers?
GettingFasterDude wrote:
Tempo runs wrote:
Why easy + hard is better than steady/tempo?
There are countless books on this. Read 1 or 2.
Here's the tldr version: People have tried your way. Others have tried the easy (80%) + hard (20%) way. The guys doing your way aren't the ones winning races.
You may have a better average daily run pace on strava and feel better about yourself. And that's fine, if that's your goal. But the guys training maximally are going to have a faster gear to shift into, and be able to sustain it, come race day.
In high school I didn't really know what I was doing, and neither did my coach. I just ran a lot and hard every day. I'd do a track workout roughly once every other week of either 10-12x400 @ 3200 pace or 16 x 200 ~ 800 pace
All of the other days I would run a tempo/progression run of 8-10 miles where the whole run was in the 5:30-5:55 per mile pace, starting around 6:15 for first mile and running some steady 5:40-5:50 miles towards the middle and often finishing below 5:30 or even sub 5 for the last mile. I once finished one of these 8 mile progression runs on the track for the last two miles and went sub 10 for the last 2 miles. I went from a 10:48 3200 early my freshman year to 9:05 my senior year.
I wouldn't say that's ideal training, but if someone trains hard like that they won't be slow, and they'll definitely be used to grinding through fatigue.
It's maybe not for everyone but some runners really thrive in "all steady" regime (think Mark Nenow or Steve Jones).
Check this great thread:
NERunner0353 wrote:
Tempo runs wrote:
Can you run tempo/ steady everyday?
If so how do you define tempo/steady?
I run 60 miles/ week all 60-30 second of M pace.
No.
Also running 30-60 seconds/mile slower than M every day is one way to stagnate in the sport. Pretty much grey zone running where you're not seeing benefits. I think that pace is fine a handful of times a week and has its place in a long run. But you need to spend time at race pace and faster, which should slow down some of your easy days if you're doing it right.
Check out the Hansons their program calls for 1 to 2 minutes slower than M pace on easy days.
So 1 minutes should be okay.
Salazar also had Farah and Rupp at less than a minute slower than M pace. Not sure if it was the same for all of his athletes.