What is a radical training theory you have?

I'm not totally convinced of it, but I'm not not convinced of it -- in a 5K rather than running steady state even pace, you should run first mile much harder than you coudl sustain for the full 5K, then take a 10-20 second walk break, then do it again and take a 10-20 second walk break between miles 2 and 3. I sorta tried it once but the results were inconclsuive.

wow21 wrote:

I'm not totally convinced of it, but I'm not not convinced of it -- in a 5K rather than running steady state even pace, you should run first mile much harder than you coudl sustain for the full 5K, then take a 10-20 second walk break, then do it again and take a 10-20 second walk break between miles 2 and 3. I sorta tried it once but the results were inconclsuive.

The more you slow down from your average pace, the faster you have to go during the remaining time to keep the average pace up. Because of thermodynamics, this costs more energy than keeping an even pace. Hence why all distance racers strive to pace evenly when going for a fast time.

Speed/Vo2Max work year round. It’s only the volume of said work that leads to injury/overtraining, not the work itself. I have been ripping fast 100s, 200s 300s and 400s for 8+ months now and have only seen gains in fitness. I just do it in moderation.

Burnout, not to be mistaken for overtraining, is a buzz word and 100% mental, and can be overcome without decreasing volume or intensity. Take a step back, remind yourself why you are doing the work you are doing, and keep moving forward.

Here’s my last and most controversial point. Salazar is a doosh for encouraging athletes to dope, not a doosh for encouraging athletes to lose weight. Weight is an essential factor in running and I don’t think Salazar should have been cancelled over his methods. The unfortunate reality is that signing with the Nike Oregon project says you are looking for world championships, and you want to get there by any means necessary. You usually have to be underweight, and sometimes unhealthily so to be successful at 5k and up on the world stage, and if you aren’t okay with that, you don’t have to run professionally.

No masturbation 72 hours before race time. Get frustrated and hungry.

I like low mileage at no slower than 7:00 pace and lots of intervals. Like 4 times a week. I ran under 4:30 in my first track season.

I think this philosophy is unpopular because people hate to work hard, but I say go big or go home.

Oh yeah. And a woman equivalent to sub 4:30 is sub 5. The only reason why most girls don't do it compared to guys (4:30) is because a lot of them are not built for running, so they shouldn't count towards the population pool. A lot less girls come out for sports too. If women were had a more consistent body structure and culture like us guys, there would be plenty of girls doing sub 5 for sure.

This is what happens when you raise a woman like a man:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeWvUPTm/

strides are useless and possibly causes of injuries, in both warmups and workouts

cool downs are useless

marathoners need to build up pure muscle strength in legs more than 5k/10k types

In workouts we need to empty the tank more. All the teams I've been on do their workouts at 80-90%...and then are expected to find the last 10-20% in races. I'd argue we need to train for the race and go 100% in training every couple weeks, to teach us how to go 100% in races.

We definitely should be doing the first interval faster than we are comfortable doing. That's how we race. We run the first 400 or K or mile faster, then we settle in. So why do we never do that in training? Train for the race.

All race type work should be in exactly the shoes we race in.

Sham 69 wrote:

Oh yeah. And a woman equivalent to sub 4:30 is sub 5. The only reason why most girls don't do it compared to guys (4:30) is because a lot of them are not built for running, so they shouldn't count towards the population pool. A lot less girls come out for sports too. If women were had a more consistent body structure and culture like us guys, there would be plenty of girls doing sub 5 for sure.

This is what happens when you raise a woman like a man:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeWvUPTm/

I agree with this statement but not the reasoning behind it. How many HS girls have you met that do doubles to build mileage? How many do their entire routes without walking? How often do you see girls choose to just not try on speed work day cause it’s hard?

The culture is completely different. HS track/XC is a serious sport for 80% of the boys that do it, and a hobby social sport for 80% of the girls that do it.

In high school we had one girl run 18:30s and the rest were all 21:00+. 18:30s girl had the same amount of talent, she just played soccer and ran 30+ mpw year round, while the rest of the girls would leave practice early, walk whenever the coaches weren’t looking, and have sh!t attitudes about everything.

It’s very common for multiple girls to run sub 5 on teams with a competitive female culture. I think the translation is actually more like 4:30-4:55 if I remember correctly.

Long runs as a regular part of training for 800-10000m crowds out more useful training you could be doing. If you workout Weds and Sat and long Run on Sun then you are spending Mon and Tues recovering. Instead, of that, you could use Sun as a rest day or recovery run, then do something like 10 x 400m on Mon and still be fresh for Weds. This adds up to a higher volume of fast work, what matters in the end.

agip wrote:

We definitely should be doing the first interval faster than we are comfortable doing. That's how we race. We run the first 400 or K or mile faster, then we settle in. So why do we never do that in training? Train for the race.

People shouldn't race that way

Hardloper wrote:

agip wrote:

We definitely should be doing the first interval faster than we are comfortable doing. That's how we race. We run the first 400 or K or mile faster, then we settle in. So why do we never do that in training? Train for the race.

People shouldn't race that way

but they do, they always have and they always will.

So train for it.

jamin wrote:

Long runs as a regular part of training for 800-10000m crowds out more useful training you could be doing. If you workout Weds and Sat and long Run on Sun then you are spending Mon and Tues recovering. Instead, of that, you could use Sun as a rest day or recovery run, then do something like 10 x 400m on Mon and still be fresh for Weds. This adds up to a higher volume of fast work, what matters in the end.

This is a good one. I’ve thrown out true long runs and instead have formatted my training to be 1 speed day, 1 Vo2 day, and 1 threshold/tempo day in a 10 day period. I just fill in the rest with 6-10 mile runs along with some 2-4 mile doubles and it works amazingly for me. (Though many would consider 10 miles a long run)

I believe you should try to gain 40-50 pounds in the off season and utilize the extra weight as resistance training.

agip wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

People shouldn't race that way

but they do, they always have and they always will.

So train for it.

I don't. They'd be better and happier if they learned to pace themselves

agreeing with CopperRunner's take on speed and Jamin's take on long run. Essentially to get speed in year round and long run isn't as sacred as it's made out to be (go ahead and split it into 2 if you feel like it).

My hot takes: Crosstraining is an incredibly underutilized tool for getting in higher volumes of aerobic work and recovering better from stressful runs and workouts. People are afraid of running fewer than 6 days a week, until that one day you should have crosstrained pushes a muscle or tendon or bone one step too far. It's also a great way to get longer aerobic sessions in as doubles without much of the mechanical strain, as the aerobic system recovers much quicker. Yes, run as much as you can, but the body is dumb. It only knows strain. Get on the bike or in the pool if you feel like it.

Leads to hot take 2: people worry wayyyy too much about mileage. It doesn't matter. Stop counting it so carefully. The difference between 68 and 70 miles is not significant enough to the point where you should do another PM double to make it to 70. Just let the components take care of the volume. Some weeks will be higher, some will be lower -- no need to be anal and get every week the exact same, and the body doesn't care if you use miles, kms, minutes, whatever.

Hardloper wrote:

agip wrote:

but they do, they always have and they always will.

So train for it.

I don't. They'd be better and happier if they learned to pace themselves

+1.

I got much better when I learned to hold back the first mile. Not only were my races better, I didn't suffer as much.

CopperRunner wrote:

Speed/Vo2Max work year round. It’s only the volume of said work that leads to injury/overtraining, not the work itself. I have been ripping fast 100s, 200s 300s and 400s for 8+ months now and have only seen gains in fitness. I just do it in moderation.

...I’ve thrown out true long runs and instead have formatted my training to be 1 speed day, 1 Vo2 day, and 1 threshold/tempo day in a 10 day period. I just fill in the rest with 6-10 mile runs along with some 2-4 mile doubles and it works amazingly for me. (Though many would consider 10 miles a long run)

You're training specifically for the 800m, correct? An/or the mile?

How do your current 5k an 10k times line up with your current 800m?

*and

keep it in perspective wrote:

CopperRunner wrote:

Speed/Vo2Max work year round. It’s only the volume of said work that leads to injury/overtraining, not the work itself. I have been ripping fast 100s, 200s 300s and 400s for 8+ months now and have only seen gains in fitness. I just do it in moderation.

...I’ve thrown out true long runs and instead have formatted my training to be 1 speed day, 1 Vo2 day, and 1 threshold/tempo day in a 10 day period. I just fill in the rest with 6-10 mile runs along with some 2-4 mile doubles and it works amazingly for me. (Though many would consider 10 miles a long run)

You're training specifically for the 800m, correct? And/or the mile?

How do your current 5k and 10k times line up with your current 800m?

And what is your weekly mileage on that program?

Thanks.