Obvious troll thread since the second best 1500m in the NCAA is clearly not going to even be in the frame with the second best 1500mnrunner in the world.
But here's a question: is there any sport where Hocker could beat Ingebrigtsen? Hocker looks like he's be good a lacrosse or ultimate frisbee so he'd probably take Jakob in those. Any others?
Don't trust too much the times. Most of them are planed and calculated.
I want a guy like "Muktar Edris" that bring the medal the important day D.
think firster wrote:
Hocker is not cracking 3:35 this summer. However I think he will definitely qualify in the trials and also will be in the olympic final, all that purely because of his kick.
But that's because of his circumstances as a college athlete, nothing else. I can't really see the relevance for judging him as an athlete. If he went pro right now and ran in Doha, we'd all expect him to run 3:32 if it was a 3:30-1 race or so.
bluejay wrote:
I am very positive on Hocker and predicted him to do great already after his 3:50 mile months ago having also predicted him to qualify for the US Olympic team in the 1500m. But he hasn´t shown world class level yet. His 800m PB is almost 2 seconds slower than Centro´s and Engel´s PBs and more than 2 seconds after Wightman´s. Hocker´s 5000m is respectable but far from Jakob´s and Centro´s ( and El-Guerrouj´s).
Jakob 3:46 in the mile!? Don´t you think he is still improving Kaare? His 3:28.68 last year equalled around 3:45.40 in the mile.
Couple of notes on Hocker's PBs. His 800, while not spectacular at the global level, is faster than Jakob's. Yes, you'd like to see him run 1:45 or 1:44, but let's note that Matthew Centrowitz didn't run faster than 1:47.7 until 2013. Similarly his 5,000s have been in competitive races more-so than time trials. I think there is room to knock off chunks of both those PBs. We might not see that happen with a long championship season.
As for Jakob in the mile, that Monaco run was great and certainly the high point of his season. He ran a time I will agree is in the 3:45-mid range converted. Maybe he's improved from that point last year, but to think he's 2.5 seconds faster is strong to me.
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
"I mean in a fast-paced Diamond League drag race, possibly. Jakob can run 3:28/9. Hocker might be well slower for sure. But you realize Olly Hoare didn't get "destroyed" by Jakob yesterday in a more tactical race and he's got PBs that are pretty similar to Hocker's. 3:33.19 to a 3:50.55 mile. Hocker has a faster 5,000 PB than Hoare. Hocker just recently ran another crazy double 1:46.39/13:32 (25 second last 200 with a crazy surge) with not much rest."
---------
Olly Hoare wasn´t destroyed yesterday because normally you don´t destroy anyone in a tactical race. You just run fast enough to get a safe win as Jakob did yesterday and as he did in the European Indoors finals a while ago.
And I don´t think you can compare Hoare and Hocker. Hoare has now proven that he can compete with the best (I consider him in top 5 in the 1500m right now) but Hocker still have to show he is at the same level.
Hocker´s chance to beat Jakob in a sprint finish in a tactical race: I think it is unlikely to happen. I predict Jakob´s speciality in future 1500 meters will be the long run for home where he "pulls the teeth out" of sprinters like Hocker. As he did with the "unknown" Mo Katir in the European Indoor final in the 3000m, (We Europeans knew Katir at least from his 7:35 in the 3000m in the early indoor season).
Still Waiting wrote:
Kicking at 3.35 pace when there are one or two in the race that can run that pace is one thing. Doing it in a race where all 12 can do it and are all trying to get in perfect position is different. I'm not saying all 12 can kick like Hocker but they will be accelerating to get in place in a way Hocker is not used to in the NCAA.
this.
Hocker may have Wheating-esque potential of 3:31 this summer, maybe not. But I don't see 3:28 coming his way too soon.
bluejay wrote:
Olly Hoare wasn´t destroyed yesterday because normally you don´t destroy anyone in a tactical race. You just run fast enough to get a safe win as Jakob did yesterday and as he did in the European Indoors finals a while ago.
And I don´t think you can compare Hoare and Hocker. Hoare has now proven that he can compete with the best (I consider him in top 5 in the 1500m right now) but Hocker still have to show he is at the same level.
Hocker´s chance to beat Jakob in a sprint finish in a tactical race: I think it is unlikely to happen. I predict Jakob´s speciality in future 1500 meters will be the long run for home where he "pulls the teeth out" of sprinters like Hocker. As he did with the "unknown" Mo Katir in the European Indoor final in the 3000m, (We Europeans knew Katir at least from his 7:35 in the 3000m in the early indoor season).
You see you do destroy someone in a tactical race if you are waaay better than them. See Matthew Centrowitz in the 1500 in California. He ran 3:35 and won by a second and that was with celebrating and easing it in. Obviously Jakob is substantially better than Centro (who was facing poor competition), but my point is that Jakob is closer to the guys who comprise the top 5-10 of the event (including Hoare) than people are presuming.
If Hocker can take a big step forward, it is not like Jakob has shown he can solo a 3:29 (like Cheruiyot) or uncork an unbeatable kick with 100 to go. I agree with your thoughts on his strategy to win. In any case, the idea that Jakob "destroys" Hocker is in a very narrow set of circumstances ~ a race where it's just an all-out time trial. Hocker will need to prove he can maneuver and hang in deeper races with a bunch of 3:30-3:35 guys, but as far as being able to close in the necessary paces and make explosive moves he's already operating at a high level.
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
As for Jakob in the mile, that Monaco run was great and certainly the high point of his season. He ran a time I will agree is in the 3:45-mid range converted. Maybe he's improved from that point last year, but to think he's 2.5 seconds faster is strong to me.
----------
I was not the one who claimed Jakob was about to break the WR in the mile. I don´t think it could happen this year. I don´t know if he will run the mile at all.
BUT I do think Jakob will continue to improve for at least 4-5 more years in the track events and consequently I also believe he - barring illness and injury - will break the 1500m WR within a couple of years. He was closer last year than most here will acknowledge: If pacer Timothy Sein hadn´t screwed it up in Monaco both Timothy and Jakob would have run at least 1 second faster.
I am happy to see that Sowinski has started to work as a pacemaker (he is running again in Doha) hoping we can again get some good pacemaking in Monaco.
THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Hocker will need to prove he can maneuver and hang in deeper races with a bunch of 3:30-3:35 guys, but as far as being able to close in the necessary paces and make explosive moves he's already operating at a high level.
He is on Cooper Teare level and he has failed to outkick nokick-Teare on several occations in the 1500m-mile distance. Teare is on a high level allright but not the highest level.
Cheruiyot will likely get the gold and the rest of the field will have to settle for the scraps
328 for 1500 splits are
55.5 x 3
41.5
so closing in 54 alone is not really going to get you anywhere alone.
Katir.