To all the 9:20-9:30 High schoolers that think they’re too good for D2

But they all go to terrible schools except for Colorado School of Mines.

Amen.

I currently have two ex athletes running D1 and one running D3. I check up on their Strava and the D3 kid is getting substantially better workouts and it shows in his improvement compared to the others.

I should say that this isn't always the case. Kids need to look at the program. Not just the division.

Seth was far, far slower than that and "ran" at CU.

You have a couple of grammatical errors that don’t serve your D2 case as well as you’d like:

- Use “there are” rather than “there’s” (there is) when using a plural subject.

- Use “their” rather “there” when referring to a possessive

Big Timer wrote:

But they all go to terrible schools except for Colorado School of Mines.

This.

Big Timer wrote:

But they all go to terrible schools except for Colorado School of Mines.

But we also all know that what college you go to largely irrelevant unless it is a top 50 college (which is a very small subset of schools). Just go to a place you will enjoy and hopefully get money too.

I think that was free of grammatical errors so my opinion hopefully matters.

I disagree. D2s don’t have very reputable academics and the only D2s I was given scholarship offers for had ridiculous tuition costs with cruddy programs.

I think for me personally it is/was a much better option to pref. walk on to one of my in-state D1s, not automatically be the fastest on the team, pay less than half the tuition, and get a better education.

As a 9:31 guy (but also 800m specialist) I know I’m not gonna light the D1 scene on fire. For me, it’s not as much about the destination but more about the journey. I want to train with a good team that all worked hard to get where they are, and will continue working hard to get where they want to be.

D1 will also look better if/when I want to try coaching further down the line.

forcing it to go D1 is dumb wrote:

So far this season there’s 15 D2 runners under 14 minutes (6 under 13:48!!), 28 under 14:10 and 76 under 14:30. Maybe consider this before you beg a blue chip coach that doesn’t really want you to be on there team just so you can not travel and never qualify for nationals

If they score about 1000 on the SAT they are too good for D2

you are the type of kid who will make great improvements no matter where you go. Self motivated and stimulated by the process. If you get buried behind 30 kids and the coach barely knows you are, you will figure out the best way to let him know.

there are kids who would get lost under these circumstances. there are kids who need to be a top 7 kid at a smaller school so that the coach will know everything about them and help them squeeze every drop of talent out.

I’ll contribute. I was one of those 9:20-9:30 guys in the South and I had my options across D1-D3 and the D1 coach I ended up signing with gave me a great speech on “big fish, little pond” which would be D2-D3 where I could rarely be challenged, be a Xx x All- American or i could go D1 and be a “little fish in a big pond” and race this best of the best every weekend for 4 years and master my craft. I chose D1 and he was right. I would have probably been Top 5 in XC my JR and SR years at D2 and would have been a “legend” but in D1 I got to race some of the guys we talk about constantly here on LRC and I have amazing memories being a national and regional contender. Wouldn’t trade it for the world. But I will admit the casualty rate is high. Of the Top 10 my SR in HS for XC only 2 guys made an impact in college (all went D1). Many burned out, got injured, or never progressed. It was like that 80/20 rule with only 20% succeeding. But doubt they had regrets bc they graduated from great schools. To each his own.

My alma mater is one of those D2 that has numerous runners on the D2 list this year. As far as academics. I had teammates that went on to medical school, law school, became engineers, have success in business related careers, and those who earned Ph. Ds and became professors/researchers. They most certainly did not receive a crappy education. You get what you put in.

As far as being a big fish in a little pond... My alma mater can't compete with teams like NAU, BYU, Stanford, etc... But they have a excellent reputation for developing talent and would defeat the overwhelming majority of DI including plenty of Power 5 schools. A 9:20 recruit would not be a big fish on the team. At least, not early in their career.

I ran 2 years D3, then transferred to D1 and ran 2 years there. I was decent in HS, but missed All State. D3 I was a contributor, but just missed the top 7 for NCAAs first year. Team did not make it 2nd year, I was 5th man. D1 walk on before Title IX limited men's rosters. Probably couldn't run D1 now with the times I ran back then, but everyone was running slower then... Traveled some, made conference teams, but not NCAA Regional.

The bad: I had 4 coaches in 4 years because turnover just happened at the end of my first year each place. Consistency was lost. The step up was tough, but not necessarily in general racing as we ran some of the same races. It was tough because D3 team had a "stud" who ran 14:40. At D1 we had 15 guys between 14:00 and 15:00. The step up was tougher academically to a top 20 in US in my major school, 25K students, and more in my major than the total at the D3 school.

The good: I got a nearly free education for 2 years on academic scholarship at D3 and got to grow some in the small pond. I was better prepared for the academic and athletic rigor of D1. NONE of my teammates from D3 ever beat me again after I transferred as I got 30s faster in the 5K training daily with a much better team. I learned a lot about training by having different coaching philosophies. I got a world class education.

Both were great experiences. Choose your school for education because chances are astronomically against making a living running. But run if you want to and can find a way.

Out of my graduating class of seniors, a bunch of the best kids banded together and went to the same D1 program (kids that were 4:10 - 4:15 1600m guys, state champ in XC, etc) and I'm being 100% honest when I say most of them didn't really pan out for one reason or another. I will say those kids all got a significantly better education than I did, and in hindsight all of my track PRs are small party tricks in social circles and no one gives a crap about how many All American awards I have. If I were to make a recommendation, choose a major first...preferably something that is useful, then pick a school. I could've saved a lot of money had I went to the local D1 state school and could've been just as good most likely, and I kick myself for not believing in myself enough to think I could run fast enough to make a splash on a small mid-major (4:04/1:49/13:58)

Too Obvious wrote:

You have a couple of grammatical errors that don’t serve your D2 case as well as you’d like:

- Use “there are” rather than “there’s” (there is) when using a plural subject.

- Use “their” rather “there” when referring to a possessive

Nobody cares. It's a forum post. We all know what was meant including you. You're forcing everyone happening on this thread to deal with this distraction.

Too Obvious wrote:

You have a couple of grammatical errors that don’t serve your D2 case as well as you’d like:

- Use “there are” rather than “there’s” (there is) when using a plural subject.

- Use “their” rather “there” when referring to a possessive

The argument of D2 schools being bottom of the barrel academic institutions is beyond stale at this point. D1 students are taught, for the first years, mainly by TA's, and are then handed off to professors who take every chance they can to go on "sabbatical". D2 and D3 schools, if they're LA, are forcing their students to spend thousands on worthless classes (pseudoscience, art classes for non-art majors) or are otherwise taught by professors who simply teach because they enjoy it or are overqualified and bored. Unless you're in an Ivy or other legacy school, you are receiving roughly the same education.

Get off your pompous, inflated and sad throne and go smash your local 5k in a 19:00 5k with the new VFs

I mean, if you're getting a discount on college tuition to run, that's gotta be the deciding factor.

College is just too expensive.

I know DIII can't offer you that or the Ivies but I have no idea about DII.

Some might counter that not every DI track team member gets a scholarship, but there's a good chance that if you come in as a freshman as one of the lower guys you could ascend and earn a scholarship berth.

There was a walk-on at UVA who had a PR of 9:50 and he ended up the ACC champion. Another guy was 4:19 in the mile I think and the ACC runner up at UVA and a World Championship trials qualifier with a 3:43 circa 2009 or 2011, I think.

No.

Yes.