The choice not to get vaccinated is non "anti-science," instead, it's pro-ethics

If you have to use this many words. It’s not as you claim

A conservative posting about ethics? That’s rich

Congratulations on using letsrun as a forum to indoctrinate the young minds to be rebellious before they truly know the scope of the cause.

Altruism, first and foremost, is a mindset. Robin Hood could have been viewed as an altruist to the poor and their plight although his methods were not ethical, overall.

His aim was to give the poor a break at the expense of the rich.

But since he stole, his methods were also immoral.

Now let's look at the vaccine through the scope of morality and ethicality..

I'll use myself and child care as an example.

Morally and ethically, I am bound by state,agency, and personal standards to provide the safest care to our kids onsite. If that includes vaccination, then I have fulfilled that standard both morally, and ethically, as well as legally.

The parents know that the site requires masks. If the parent does not wear a mask,they can stay outside, but they bring a potential covid risk. They aren't being moral because they would rather risk our lives for freedom

If they have to wear a mask in their job and won't in the center, then they are being unethical.

If they won't mask up and won't get vaccinated, they don't care about others, which is both immoral and unethical.

Front line workers are doing everything legally,ethically and morally to ensure public safety...

Please tell me how "young people" should be free from this inherent obligation and why you think your stance, which could lead to an increase in illnesses in those who are HELPING you all is a good thing...

Morally, ethically or legally

But ther IS a personal benefit for getting the vaccine. If you aren't aware of that, then you aren't scientifically informed.

The push to get everybody vaccinated also decreases the opportunity for the propagation of more strains that might even affect younger people more. Instead of freaking out about suspicions over hidden motives for mass vaccinations, which is a sad joke, why don't you freak out about the next pandemic (s)? We all know that even if we stop covid19 dead in its tracks for the US, that foreigners flying in with new strains could start the whole pandemic response all over again.

I am vaxxed . Authority is coercing others, apparently a resistant majority, or nearly so, to get vaccinated for a once vulnerable minority that is now already vaccinated or choosing for themselves not to be. The OP is on target. If we still need low risk people to protect so many others to the degree that it is "unethical" not to do it, the vaccine is crap. SCIENCE failed to make a vaccine that would prevent such a preposterous ethical dilemma.

I appreciate the sentiment, bodily autonomy and all that, but aren't vaccines not really about individual health in the long game anyway? Successful vaccine programs--mandatory or not-- function on population scales, and don't particularly care if you or me actually got vaccinated.

As someone who has not yet gotten the vaccine, I believe that the benefits of me personally not getting the vaccine -- no chance of side effects down the road, etc -- outweigh any benefits to society from me being vaccinated and theoretically reducing COVID transmission. Unwittingly getting it or spreading COVID to someone else is not a problem because I, as an individual, am not at high risk. If I get it, I get it. If somebody else gets it, tough - should have been fitter to start with.

However, for COVID to truly "go away", herd immunity, not someone choosing to be vaccinated or not, must be reached. I think that will happen naturally, but slowly. Vaccines simply speed up the process of reaching herd immunity, but without the consequences of infection. To reach true herd immunity, as many as 80% or more people must have either been vaccinated or infected. We can either use vaccines to rip the bandaid off quick, or suffer slowly like we have been. I'm not suffering, so let's rip the bandaid off slowly.

Getting rid of COVID quickly is not worth any type of vaccine program. Society has been impacted this long, might as well wait another six months or a year. If we were talking an airborne Ebola with a high mortality rate, I would have different opinions.

How about just being good people who do what is right?

The vaccine is good; science is good. I have had both doses.

But the problem is that we need a spokesperson who would make people fear a punch in their unmasked face if they don't do what obligatory

Dr Fauci is right but he's not intimidating

Guaranteed I am noting in my community the rebels and I'll deal with them accordingly after the pandemic ends (and some here)

Will I win? TBD..but I'll fight anyway.

We need someone that infuses the cliche view on RPGs...

No? No Vax? Then you've chosen death.

No way in he** I'm doing the right thing for me, mine and the kids for almost a year and let some redneck anti vaxxers ruin it.

No way.

interested but confused wrote:

Getting rid of COVID quickly is not worth any type of vaccine program. Society has been impacted this long, might as well wait another six months or a year. If we were talking an airborne Ebola with a high mortality rate, I would have different opinions.

Spoken like a true moron. Do you know how many people’s livelihoods are affected by the consequences of the virus? If we can get the domestic economy rolling full throttle let’s do it, not wait 6 months because you and others are fraidy-cats.

Some people (like him) need a back alley fracas of 2 vaccinated Americans and well, him, like in Mo' Better Blues to put the fear of God in his eyes to get the vaccine or else.

I've had it with rebels and I'm listing now.

Then I'm investigating.

Be right or....to be continued

But. But. But Science is the authority. If you don't follow what "IT" dictates, then you are a dumb Redneck Trump supporter and muss be silenced.

Please quit bullying young people on this site. Please!

pick me pick me.

hey stop it, you will not be the one who decides if or when i get vaccinated. science proves that loud and clear. and all your threats are a clear violation of board policy. im sure rojo mentioned that to you on your phone call. and hopefully he reverse dialed your number so he can put a restraining order on you if you continue your rediculous threats of violence.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

interested but confused wrote:

Getting rid of COVID quickly is not worth any type of vaccine program. Society has been impacted this long, might as well wait another six months or a year. If we were talking an airborne Ebola with a high mortality rate, I would have different opinions.

Spoken like a true moron. Do you know how many people’s livelihoods are affected by the consequences of the virus? If we can get the domestic economy rolling full throttle let’s do it, not wait 6 months because you and others are fraidy-cats.

My main point was the first. The virus would have had consequences, either in terms of infections and lives or in terms of economic loss or in terms of both no matter what happened. How an individual places value on those consequences is their own business. That's for another thread.

The OP of this thread was trying to differentiate that what is good for an individual might not be best for society. I add that vaccines are not about individual health, but are about public health. It is in society's best interest to have a fully vaccinated population; the issue is that people make choices on vaccination as if it were an individual health choice when it really is a public health choice, with ramifications beyond the individual. That's just how people think, I don't that is going to change.

And Mike is my real name.

Robert has my info.

I'm still not backing down.

i am surprised that you work for a school. and you are very easy to find. and you have a mountain of public posts. in which you threaten violence.

granted of course that violence is a fantasy and totally bogus. just a character you play like one of the three stooges.

but many employers would fire or reduce the hours of someone foolish enough to speak like you.

but in fantasy avenger land i guess that would be a plus. and the temporary covid unemployment check might get you back to jogging.

please spank me mr stop it

Once we get to 80% vaxxed, we can open up and do more things.

Those that choose not to get vaxxed are holding us all up.

Of course.

I'm transparent as scotch tape and I live honestly.

If you want to report me, be my guest.

If I get fired because of what I say then there's no covid attached because that would be lying.

Brass tacks, I have worked with kids for years from grades K-12 and even community college.

I care about them immensely.

I hate most adults and think most of you are dirty pigs.

I think the rebellious adults are barely fit to breathe.

I relish my transparency and I'm not giving it up.

Either do something about it or shut up and stop wasting my time

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Of course.

before the game of mastermind added a bunch of colors it was a better game to teach logic to children with. basic scientific method. it was better with only 4 colors to choose from. i would change one thing. that blank space could also be left in the guess.

I. Don't. Give. A. Flip.

I played mastermind.

Loved it

I live by whim, feeling and inkling.

What is your point.

Either handle your business with me or shut up.

You're not worth my time to play the mind game you're playing.

Report me or not..I'm neither apologetic nor scared.