Help me understand Joe Rogan's vaccination stance for people in their low-20s

fisky wrote:

I really thought the name-calling wouldn't start until June or maybe late May, but I was wrong. It's here now and it's still April.

I would love to see everyone take responsibility for their own health... losing weight if they're overweight, exercising, and taking at least 5,000 IU of vitamin D, plus a handful of other supplements to boost the immune system every day. I've posted that many times here. I believe these steps could have saved tens of thousands of lives/year and equally important, reduce morbidity that typically occurs with age. Multiple studies indicate that vitamin D can reduce the prevalence of COVID 19 and reduce the severity of COVID if you get it.

I wish that my opinion on vitamin D and exercise and weight control mattered. I wish that I could have the same bully pulpit as Dr. Fauci to preach exercise, vitamin D, and losing weight. I think it could have saved tens of thousands of lives, but our public health leaders have steadfastly refused to recommend these steps in their almost daily interviews... whereas masking and social distancing reminders are everywhere.

I want to see the long-term effects of the vaccine before I will consider getting it. That's going to be at least one year and more likely two years from now.

Everyone who is concerned about getting COVID (and unwilling to lose weight, exercise, and take vitamin D), should get the vaccination right now and quit worrying about those of us who choose to wait and see what, if any, long term effects there will be.

fisky wrote:

Harambe wrote:

Fisky, do you really think there isn't public health messaging and lots of pressure from doctors to patients to control weight?

Our public health leaders are definitely not doing this.

Dr Fauci has had a bully pulpit since March last year. He has probably been on TV 500+ times since then. How many times have you heard him say, "Mask, social distance, and lose weight if you're overweight!" I've never heard him say this. Never. Not once has he said, "And for goodness sakes, use this time and an opportunity to lose weight if you're overweight! It will reduce your risk of a severe case of COVID and it has many other health benefits."

Dr Fauci also takes vitamin D, but he doesn't mention it every time he gets in front of a camera. He's only admitted it once in an interview, while generally making derogatory remarks about supplements.

Parsec wrote:

fisky wrote:

I really thought the name-calling wouldn't start until June or maybe late May, but I was wrong. It's here now and it's still April.

I would love to see everyone take responsibility for their own health... losing weight if they're overweight, exercising, and taking at least 5,000 IU of vitamin D, plus a handful of other supplements to boost the immune system every day. I've posted that many times here. I believe these steps could have saved tens of thousands of lives/year and equally important, reduce morbidity that typically occurs with age. Multiple studies indicate that vitamin D can reduce the prevalence of COVID 19 and reduce the severity of COVID if you get it.

I wish that my opinion on vitamin D and exercise and weight control mattered. I wish that I could have the same bully pulpit as Dr. Fauci to preach exercise, vitamin D, and losing weight. I think it could have saved tens of thousands of lives, but our public health leaders have steadfastly refused to recommend these steps in their almost daily interviews... whereas masking and social distancing reminders are everywhere.

I want to see the long-term effects of the vaccine before I will consider getting it. That's going to be at least one year and more likely two years from now.

Everyone who is concerned about getting COVID (and unwilling to lose weight, exercise, and take vitamin D), should get the vaccination right now and quit worrying about those of us who choose to wait and see what, if any, long term effects there will be.

Concern for long term effects is legitimate. Not sure how you can say it's going to be at least one year from now, unless that's just your probabilistic threshold.

Even now, it's a low probability event.

That must be balanced with the prosocial behavior of getting the vaccine, as well as the overall possibility to spread COVID to non-vaccinated individuals.

I was initially in the category of "going to wait and see", but I've given it a few months now and the current rate of side effects if incredibly small. There isn't a strong mechanistic reason to be concerned about long term sides. Israel didn't have the spike in cases I was mildly concerned about.

At this point, I'm moving away from the hesitancy, and finding it hard to argue against the value of the pro-social aspect. It's essentially a test of whether you a prosocial person willing to abide by the rules of civilization and willing to take a personal loss for the benefit of society.

Short of being someone who is strongly anti-vax, or having concerns like I did about vaccines creating problematic selection pressure, the only remaining argument against the vaccine is "but maybe long term sides!". If that's the argument, then the meme is spot on.

https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/179244887_10159474616193559_4883736840264670950_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=NmAHYW9NcHsAX9OHnr1&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-2.xx&oh=7dd00fd43e5d4f669461c88bce37f27a&oe=60B04D43

China Joe wrote:

Parsec wrote:

Concern for long term effects is legitimate. Not sure how you can say it's going to be at least one year from now, unless that's just your probabilistic threshold.

Even now, it's a low probability event.

That must be balanced with the prosocial behavior of getting the vaccine, as well as the overall possibility to spread COVID to non-vaccinated individuals.

I was initially in the category of "going to wait and see", but I've given it a few months now and the current rate of side effects if incredibly small. There isn't a strong mechanistic reason to be concerned about long term sides. Israel didn't have the spike in cases I was mildly concerned about.

At this point, I'm moving away from the hesitancy, and finding it hard to argue against the value of the pro-social aspect. It's essentially a test of whether you a prosocial person willing to abide by the rules of civilization and willing to take a personal loss for the benefit of society.

Short of being someone who is strongly anti-vax, or having concerns like I did about vaccines creating problematic selection pressure, the only remaining argument against the vaccine is "but maybe long term sides!". If that's the argument, then the meme is spot on.

https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/179244887_10159474616193559_4883736840264670950_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=NmAHYW9NcHsAX9OHnr1&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-2.xx&oh=7dd00fd43e5d4f669461c88bce37f27a&oe=60B04D43

Or maybe you just don't need it cause you already have natural immunity from having the virus, as the data suggests you would, thus the vaccine really is not necessary. You're right though, getting the vaccine because you think it will make everybody like you more than if you didn't is great logic. I guess the next argument will be "well you should get the vaccine just to be safe" which I guess is somewhat true. Then again there are lots of silly, unnecessary things we could be doing just to be safe like wearing helmets everywhere we go - that's easy enough to do, very little cost, and it would probably make your life safer so why not?!

China Joe wrote:

Parsec wrote:

Concern for long term effects is legitimate. Not sure how you can say it's going to be at least one year from now, unless that's just your probabilistic threshold.

Even now, it's a low probability event.

That must be balanced with the prosocial behavior of getting the vaccine, as well as the overall possibility to spread COVID to non-vaccinated individuals.

I was initially in the category of "going to wait and see", but I've given it a few months now and the current rate of side effects if incredibly small. There isn't a strong mechanistic reason to be concerned about long term sides. Israel didn't have the spike in cases I was mildly concerned about.

At this point, I'm moving away from the hesitancy, and finding it hard to argue against the value of the pro-social aspect. It's essentially a test of whether you a prosocial person willing to abide by the rules of civilization and willing to take a personal loss for the benefit of society.

Short of being someone who is strongly anti-vax, or having concerns like I did about vaccines creating problematic selection pressure, the only remaining argument against the vaccine is "but maybe long term sides!". If that's the argument, then the meme is spot on.

https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/179244887_10159474616193559_4883736840264670950_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=NmAHYW9NcHsAX9OHnr1&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-2.xx&oh=7dd00fd43e5d4f669461c88bce37f27a&oe=60B04D43

Or maybe you just don't need it cause you already have natural immunity from having the virus, as the data suggests you would, thus the vaccine really is not necessary. You're right though, getting the vaccine because you think it will make everybody like you more than if you didn't is great logic. I guess the next argument will be "well you should get the vaccine just to be safe" which I guess is somewhat true. Then again there are lots of silly, unnecessary things we could be doing just to be safe like wearing helmets everywhere we go - that's easy enough to do, very little cost, and it would probably make your life safer so why not?!

China Joe wrote:

Then again there are lots of silly, unnecessary things we could be doing just to be safe like wearing helmets everywhere we go - that's easy enough to do, very little cost, and it would probably make your life safer so why not?!

China Joe wrote:

Parsec wrote:

Concern for long term effects is legitimate. Not sure how you can say it's going to be at least one year from now, unless that's just your probabilistic threshold.

Even now, it's a low probability event.

That must be balanced with the prosocial behavior of getting the vaccine, as well as the overall possibility to spread COVID to non-vaccinated individuals.

I was initially in the category of "going to wait and see", but I've given it a few months now and the current rate of side effects if incredibly small. There isn't a strong mechanistic reason to be concerned about long term sides. Israel didn't have the spike in cases I was mildly concerned about.

At this point, I'm moving away from the hesitancy, and finding it hard to argue against the value of the pro-social aspect. It's essentially a test of whether you a prosocial person willing to abide by the rules of civilization and willing to take a personal loss for the benefit of society.

Short of being someone who is strongly anti-vax, or having concerns like I did about vaccines creating problematic selection pressure, the only remaining argument against the vaccine is "but maybe long term sides!". If that's the argument, then the meme is spot on.

https://scontent-frt3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/179244887_10159474616193559_4883736840264670950_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=NmAHYW9NcHsAX9OHnr1&_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-2.xx&oh=7dd00fd43e5d4f669461c88bce37f27a&oe=60B04D43

Or maybe you just don't need it cause you already have natural immunity from having the virus, as the data suggests you would, thus the vaccine really is not necessary. You're right though, getting the vaccine because you think it will make everybody like you more than if you didn't is great logic. I guess the next argument will be "well you should get the vaccine just to be safe" which I guess is somewhat true. Then again there are lots of silly, unnecessary things we could be doing just to be safe like wearing helmets everywhere we go - that's easy enough to do, very little cost, and it would probably make your life safer so why not?!

Parsec wrote:

fisky wrote:

Our public health leaders are definitely not doing this.

Dr Fauci has had a bully pulpit since March last year. He has probably been on TV 500+ times since then. How many times have you heard him say, "Mask, social distance, and lose weight if you're overweight!" I've never heard him say this. Never. Not once has he said, "And for goodness sakes, use this time and an opportunity to lose weight if you're overweight! It will reduce your risk of a severe case of COVID and it has many other health benefits."

Dr Fauci also takes vitamin D, but he doesn't mention it every time he gets in front of a camera. He's only admitted it once in an interview, while generally making derogatory remarks about supplements.

It's bizarre you're acting like most people can lose weight.

Obviously people can, and do, lose weight in the short term. Over the long term, nobody loses weight. It's absurdly rare, as in less than 1% rare. The vast majority of that 99% return to a higher baseline. Weight loss literature is about as dismal as it gets.

Almost everyone I know of that remains say...sub 15% BF into their 40s or 50s consistently eat a high quality diet with very minimal amounts of processed foods or grains, although there does exist a fraction of the population (10%?) that just don't have much of an appetite or desire for food, and are able to maintain weight even with a sh1t diet because they rarely to eat anywhere near the same level of satiety that is typical.

Almost all successful, decade+ weight loss folks share the same characteristics about the food they eat.

And no, Fauci never gives that advice, you're correct. But also missing the other guys point, which is that in regular society and from your typical doctor you are constantly getting the message that you ought to lose weight.

Marietta Tar Heel wrote:

agip wrote:

it's to set an example.

60% of the population isn't vaccinated yet

having political leaders get all crowded in a room while preaching others shouldn't... would get people very angry.

And not all Reps were vaccinated, I believe. Last I heard the young R men in the House were holding out, waiting for others to end the pandemic for them.

But I hear you on the need to give incentives.

It sets the wrong example though. If the people in the chamber were maskless and could be socially distanced at 3 feet, it would show that if you are vaccinated you can gather in a room with other vaccinated people. If someone is not vaccinated, they would not be allowed in the room.

They should have done that and made a big deal about it. Biden could have stated at the beginning that the only reason we are able to gather in this room together without masks and moderately socially distanced (or not at all) is because everyone here is vaccinated. Unfortunately, some Reps chose not to be vaccinated and they are unable to attend, but were given the ability to watch it remotely. And if the unvaccinated would like to enjoy this freedom, help out and get a shot. Otherwise, you may not enjoy the freedom of gathering together, going maskless in privately owned businesses, etc.

The optics of fully vaccinated people, still wearing masks and still having to socially distance sent the wrong message to the people who are hesitant to getting vaccinated.

fisky wrote:

Parsec wrote:

It's bizarre you're acting like most people can lose weight.

Obviously people can, and do, lose weight in the short term. Over the long term, nobody loses weight. It's absurdly rare, as in less than 1% rare. The vast majority of that 99% return to a higher baseline. Weight loss literature is about as dismal as it gets.

Almost everyone I know of that remains say...sub 15% BF into their 40s or 50s consistently eat a high quality diet with very minimal amounts of processed foods or grains, although there does exist a fraction of the population (10%?) that just don't have much of an appetite or desire for food, and are able to maintain weight even with a sh1t diet because they rarely to eat anywhere near the same level of satiety that is typical.

Almost all successful, decade+ weight loss folks share the same characteristics about the food they eat.

And no, Fauci never gives that advice, you're correct. But also missing the other guys point, which is that in regular society and from your typical doctor you are constantly getting the message that you ought to lose weight.

There is no sense of immediacy when their doctor says to lose weight. These people are thinking 20-30 years down the road. COVID could be next week or next month AND THEY COULD DIE! Fauci had the bully pulpit and he steadfastly refused to recommend that people take proactive steps to IMPROVE THEIR OWN HEALTH!

Could everyone do it? Could half? Could 10%? Ten percent would be 30 million people! That's 30 million people with reduced risk of diabetes, heart disease, cancer, Alzheimer's, sepsis, oh, and covid!