If you're Drew Hunter in this situation what do you do?

I feel bad wrote:

Title.

What is the best course of action to this? Obviously Tinman Elite will have to issue a statement, likely apologizing to Schwartz and his family while addressing the situation. However, moving on from there they 100% have to rebrand right? Even if they manage to get the legal rights to the name Tinman Elite, I don't think people will support them under the same brand. Can they still salvage everything with a complete rebrand?

Is this the time for Drew to find a true pro group to train in? Sell the brand, find a good group to train with (the ON guys?) and try to spend the second half of his contract focusing on his running and his name.

find an actually-elite training group that will accept an Adidas athlete

A lot of Nike fanboys/interns muddling up the conversation. 'The mistake was adidas' and 'adidas eliminates the coach (they mean Schumacher) that I would recommend ', etc. No mystery they lurk on the Board and disparage anything non-Nike-affiliated. Oh well, all that aside....

It was mentioned there are a number of good college coaches. Many of those fit both of these criteria: they coach runners not NCAA-eligible (pros, aspiring pros, whatever); and, are not personally beholden to the school where they work's shoe sponsor. Mike Smith wasn't known for such before Rupp; that may be his first gig (or just the first high enough profile that we all were aware of it) of the sort. However, many full-time college coaches regularly do this and are known for it. Keep in mind that Warhurst did exactly this when he was full-time at the school (read 'Sub-4'). Sully and those guys had various sponsors.

Wetmore is usually one of the first names kicked around. Jenny has no Nike affiliation but CU does - no problem. Eyestone is another. Ward is not sponsored by the same brand as the BYU program is - again, not an issue. Say what you will about any religion, but Ed has done remarkably well with a complete lack of East African genetics. These are just a couple names. They are both at medium-high altitude. Wetmore is literally in town.

I know Ritz has been mentioned - justifiably so - and I'm not sure his On employment is a show-stopper or not. I wonder if he still coaches or advises Stinson; I recall that being asked on the Board but not sure.... That would be my first choice if I was his parent or something and had his ear. Off topic, but On seem pretty wishy-washy about their own product. It seems that if they sponsor you, you're not allowed to race in their shoes. I kind of doubt they train in them either, if there are no cameras around. Just a de facto Nike group that Beaverton doesn't have to pay!

One more thing. I don't consider his lack of NCAA experience to be an impediment. Maybe whom he surrounds himself with and listens to is, maybe various lifestyle choices are,....but what do I know.

Thanks, Rizzo. wrote:

There's been a clear answer for a long time: get a condo in Colorado Springs and train with ADP under Scott Simmons. Leave the TME situation behind, it's toxic to high achievers and they have zero experience in guiding true world class performers. He's outgrown them and if they aren't completely arrogant and entitled they'll understand his need to leave. Forget Bosshard, that's a compromised situation, too.

Does outgrow them mean, he is not getting any better?

perennial Oz snoozer wrote:

Thanks, Rizzo. wrote:

There's been a clear answer for a long time: get a condo in Colorado Springs and train with ADP under Scott Simmons. Leave the TME situation behind, it's toxic to high achievers and they have zero experience in guiding true world class performers. He's outgrown them and if they aren't completely arrogant and entitled they'll understand his need to leave. Forget Bosshard, that's a compromised situation, too.

Does outgrow them mean, he is not getting any better?

Unfortunately, they're all regressing towards each other. They're all clustered around that 13:20 5k, 3:40 1500m area that's not going to get them anywhere. Pretty sad.

To me the Team aspect of TME seems very important. Drew Hunter deserves more respect for creating and supporting the TME Team. Keep the Team, change the name. Seems like D. Hunter really likes the Team aspect of TME. Maybe he really liked being on a team in HS and did not get to be part of a college Team. So he was fortunate enough to be in a situation to build his own Team after going pro. A next level team. Way beyond the HS Team level. Beyond HS level Team. He can be selective about who can be part of the Team, and they all live together in the same house. No school to get in the way, running is the focus. No one has to graduate and leave. Was able to essentially convince his HS coach to be part of the next level Team. Drew seems really into supporting his teammates, and often acts like a Team Captain. The Team has already achieved great Team success. TME has won the team title at USATF XC Championships in 2017, 2018, 2019. Like winning NXN at the far next level. Maybe the Team and the Team Captain are not totally agreeing with their coach. Maybe its time for the Team to graduate and go to a new 'school' with a new coach. Or maybe they just need to transfer 'schools' to improve their situation. When you transfer or graduate you get a new coach and a new Team name. And it is their, the Team's, situation that needs to improve. TME is unique among other groups in that the Team Captain has a secure relatively long term contract. He does not have to go out there and continuously prove himself, or achieve individual success to live. So he has the luxury of being able to focus more so on the Team aspects. Seems like most other USA Teams are all about "me" and little about "us", They are mostly a loose collection of individuals trying to achieve individual success. Yes there is some Team camaraderie and individual team members help and support each other, but not to the level that Drew Hunter seems to do for TME. So I believe its likely Drew will keep the Team together. Change the name. The great honor of naming the Team after the coach should not be overlooked. Few other teams consider this, and none that I know of at the 'pro' level (Adams State XC referred to themselves as the Vigilantes to honor Joe Vigil, but they were officially the Grizzlies...) D Hunter deserves respect for creating a Team situation which gives a bunch of very very good runners a chance to continue to try to make their dreams become reality. He is not trying to build a 'super team'. He did not have to do what he has done. Maybe D. Hunter has sacrificed his own personal dreams some for the Team. Have any other top level runners have done something similar to the degree he has? Regardless of what happens, D . Hunter and TME deserve credit for helping to build interest in the sport in a unique way.

ehhhhhhhhhh wrote:

Title.

Ignore the high schoolers on social media and these boards for a couple weeks and carry on with life. Seems like he loves the team and the team has (obviously) always been about him and the runners, not Schwartz so I don't know why he'd change anything other than the coaching, which sounds like it has already happened. Not sure why they'd apologize to Schwartz and his family--sounds like they had an informal agreement that the team is honoring. My guess is that the angry boys on social media who would have no idea who Tom Schwartz is if not for Drew Hunter will get over it.

Join team boss, doesn't have to move and can train with Morgan.

Call Steve Jones.

He lives in Boulder.

that guy sucks^

There is only one option that makes sense and that is Mike Smith.

Is Fisher that hard of a name to spell correctly?

Isn't it really just an Adidas vanity project..? At some point they will tell them what to do, surely. I think for a lot of them their contracts were up this year, so maybe they won't do anything until they run out

alien wrote:

There is only one option that makes sense and that is Mike Smith.

This came to mind got me too. Drew training with Rupp or Nico Young would be wild.

Marty McFly wrote:

Jump in the DeLorean and hit the Way-back-machine to 2016, actually go NCAA route instead of Adidas, put your name among other OU greats, get one season along side of Cheserek,

Hello, McFly!! Cheserek didn't go to Oklahoma, he went to Oregon.

I feel bad wrote:

Title.

What is the best course of action to this? Obviously Tinman Elite will have to issue a statement, likely apologizing to Schwartz and his family while addressing the situation. However, moving on from there they 100% have to rebrand right? Even if they manage to get the legal rights to the name Tinman Elite, I don't think people will support them under the same brand. Can they still salvage everything with a complete rebrand?

Is this the time for Drew to find a true pro group to train in? Sell the brand, find a good group to train with (the ON guys?) and try to spend the second half of his contract focusing on his running and his name.

The only course of action is for Tinman Eliteto give Coach Schwartz a small fraction of their business in exchange to be able to use Tinman's name.... Apologies happen in cuckoo-land

The statement from Schwartz's wife was clearly insinuating influence from Sam Parsons. He might be a decision factor in Drew's next move.

They need to split profits on any remaining merch branded with the ‘Tinman’ name and rename themselves.... like months ago.

Scott Simmons.

I feel bad wrote:

Title.

What is the best course of action to this? Obviously Tinman Elite will have to issue a statement, likely apologizing to Schwartz and his family while addressing the situation. However, moving on from there they 100% have to rebrand right? Even if they manage to get the legal rights to the name Tinman Elite, I don't think people will support them under the same brand. Can they still salvage everything with a complete rebrand?

Is this the time for Drew to find a true pro group to train in? Sell the brand, find a good group to train with (the ON guys?) and try to spend the second half of his contract focusing on his running and his name.

Relocate to Sandnes and join Team Ingebrigtsen. They'll whoop him into shape real quick.

Or if the Adidas connection matters, he can train with Grøvdal in Oslo.