NCAA Sides with ALL Women Athletes, Won't Host Championship Events In States That Discriminate Against Transgender Athletes.

yawn wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

What new laws? The NCAA policies regarding transgender athletes have been place for over 10 years. It doesn't matter what the states do.

You managed to put do yourself. You don’t even understand the premise of this thread.

The NCAA is responding to states going against its rules regarding transgender athletes. The OP claims the NCAA is taking a side by doing so, but the rules have been in place for over 10 years. Did he expect the NCAA to say, "Yes, you don't have to follow our rules"?

What am I missing?

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Of course, since these athletes don't exist, it's all a moot point anyway.

Which athletes?

55YO wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Of course, since these athletes don't exist, it's all a moot point anyway.

Which athletes?

Do you believe there are transgender athletes in all of those red states that are banning them?

Confused, I recognize you are trying to be reasonable and engage in a dialogue and I appreciate that and will not accuse you of phobia or ism, etc. I have some practical questions for you for the vast majority of athletes in the USA, school children, hs students and post college hobby types. NCAA and pro athletes are a tiny fraction of the athletic universe.

Trans people live among us. They are our friends, colleagues, classmates. You may think you know who they are, but you don’t. How invasive are you proposing to be to insure the people only compete according to their biological sex? I’m involved in hs athletics. We are not going to be checking largo types or testosterone levels. We are not going to be asking for both certificates before dual meets. Even if you insisted that at least the latter be done, the school administration and coaches in our league wouldn’t do it (in CA it’s against the law anyway). Birth certificates doesn’t solve the issue of intersex competitors. Doing this sort of investigation is even more absurd for community road races.

I would argue that for the vast majority of athletics, trying to enforce rules that seek to separate/distinguish declared gender from sex are going to be unreasonably intrusive for what’s at stake in terms of competition. I would also argue that the damage done by this investigation and by preventing like gendered people from competing together is far outweighs the damage done to biological women who might lose a hs race or a hobby jogger race. Transgender people barred from competing with their gender have high rates of depression and even suicide. There are ample data supporting this. I defy people to identify biological girls who suffer in this was because they lost to a trans athlete.

As for what to do in D1 NCAA competition or the pros, ok, I’ll concede that’s more complicated. This is like 0.01% of the athletes in this country. For the rest, I would argue what you propose is bad and unenforceable policy.

I’ll finish with one last point. I’m involved in hs girl’s t&f. I’ve spoken to many many athletes about this issue. The overwhelming sentiment, in fact universal sentiment, of these young female athletes where I live is that they don’t need any “protection” from having to compete with/against their trans sisters. They certainly don’t need a bunch of guys telling them what the policy should be. Maybe if we polled Olympic 800m runners they’d feel differently, but we are talking about middle school, hs, D3 and hobby jogger sports....

Honestly, I give up on defending female sports. They're boring and nobody cares about them anyways, so I am just here to watch the fireworks. I just can't wait for men to start capitalizing on the idiotic laws and for the floodgates to open once all the sub-par men who can't make a d1 male team - you know, the 1:55/4:20/9:20/14:50/30:30 types -realize they are just a year of hormone treatments away from getting a full ride to any d1 school in the country, most likely a natty champ if not an easy AA.

The true irony will be when some benchwarmer on a men's pro soccer team jumps ship to play as a woman and takes Megan Rapino's spot, I honestly don't know what she would say at that point. It would be a true battle of the deranged woke ideologies.

Sorry for the typos. No more posting using my phone. You get my points. Making a big deal about distinguishing gender and sex, and enforcing this difference at most levels of competition, is impractical, intrusive and does more harm than good. The Olympics is one thing and a hs dual meet, another.

Let it Rupp wrote:

Honestly, I give up on defending female sports. They're boring and nobody cares about them anyways, so I am just here to watch the fireworks. I just can't wait for men to start capitalizing on the idiotic laws and for the floodgates to open once all the sub-par men who can't make a d1 male team - you know, the 1:55/4:20/9:20/14:50/30:30 types -realize they are just a year of hormone treatments away from getting a full ride to any d1 school in the country, most likely a natty champ if not an easy AA.

The true irony will be when some benchwarmer on a men's pro soccer team jumps ship to play as a woman and takes Megan Rapino's spot, I honestly don't know what she would say at that point. It would be a true battle of the deranged woke ideologies.

I’m starting to be of this opinion as well. I see the writing on the wall and recognize that female sports are, at some point, going to be a casualty of far left gender theory. It’s something that as a guy with three sisters (who are actually biological woman) I find sad and disappointing I realize doesn’t actually effect me too much directly- if a biological woman shot up with dangerous amounts of testosterone wants to race against me in my local half marathon as a man then bring it on.

Shouldn’t NCAA refuse to hold events in states that allow recreational and/or medical use of marijuana? That’s also against their rules.

The only thing that keeps me hopeful is that the natural consequences of all these idiotic laws and ideologies will cause people to wake up (many already have) and turn against this nonsense. I actually welcome as many men to identify as women and take their roster spots to speed this process up.

Let it Rupp wrote:

The only thing that keeps me hopeful is that the natural consequences of all these idiotic laws and ideologies will cause people to wake up (many already have) and turn against this nonsense. I actually welcome as many men to identify as women and take their roster spots to speed this process up.

You really want people to wake up and turn against what many GOP leaning states have put forth?

CrispyChicken wrote:

Political advocacy is not a good look or move for a monopolistic, tax-exempt, non-profit organization. The State of Indiana should take action to tax the organization, and all states and municipalities should take action to tax revenues from NCAA events held in within their jurisdictions.

Excellent point.

Stand up for women’s sports and resist the totalitarian leftist thugs.

Let it Rupp wrote:

Honestly, I give up on defending female sports. They're boring and nobody cares about them anyways, so I am just here to watch the fireworks. I just can't wait for men to start capitalizing on the idiotic laws and for the floodgates to open once all the sub-par men who can't make a d1 male team - you know, the 1:55/4:20/9:20/14:50/30:30 types -realize they are just a year of hormone treatments away from getting a full ride to any d1 school in the country, most likely a natty champ if not an easy AA.

The true irony will be when some benchwarmer on a men's pro soccer team jumps ship to play as a woman and takes Megan Rapino's spot, I honestly don't know what she would say at that point. It would be a true battle of the deranged woke ideologies.

Guys have been just a year of hormone treatments away from running in the women's division for 10 years and so far it's just been June Eastwood. After transitioning she slowed down by 30 seconds per mile so the type of runners you described wouldn't be good enough for a scholarship afterwoods and no coach would rubber stamp one anyway. They would also have to sit out a year and grow a pair of breasts. Your floodgates prediction is not going to happen.

Someone that would try to game the system in such a manner would be an absolute lowlife and I don't believe a dedicated distance runner attending college falls in that category.

Everyone, please stop using "natty". Ugh.

+1

The anticipated slippery slope is NEVER going to materialize. Let trans women run where they want and stop worrying. Biological women will be just fine.

So can I identify as a female and race at Stanford Invite? Or maybe even at the university of Oregon on that new gorgeous track. This is the only way I can get a chance to be in one of Gwen’s videos.

I can easily find a doctor who will sign off that I’m compliant.

I have naturally low Testosterone so that shouldn’t be a problem passing the tests. I still run about 15:30 in the 5K and 4:30 in the mile. I can certainly mix it up those domestic fields. I’d make an exceptional female runner. It would be nice to get some attention.

Racing at Hayward or maybe even a front row start at Boston would be super cool.

Imagine the Instagram army I could achieve. I could be a total influencer and probably become an icon and a symbol of hope.

(This will happen)

What I dont understand is why you care so much. Youre a man -- none of this affects you. Its a women problem, so let women sort it out amongst themselves.

Its mostly been women and feminist groups pushing politically correct gender stuff for the last 70 years - men have always been happy with traditional concepts of sex. So now if they have created a big problem for themselves, tough luck. Why get involved? No women are going to thank you for it

If 'biological women' are being disadvantaged by trans laws then let them speak out, they dont need you to fight their battles, and you wont get any thanks for doing so. And lets be honest - its mostly biological women who are driving political correctness and inclusivity, so its not like they seem to mind their own sports being ruined. Take a step back, and let them get on with it

Womens sports are mostly a joke anyway, at least having trans athletes compete will make them more interesting/amusing.

Nice to get some attention? The reaction you would receive here on LR would make Mike Rossi seem popular.

You are missing my point because you seem to think there can only be one set of rules across the full spectrum of sports. If you are talking about elite competition, then I think governing bodies can institute participation rules that might include elements like hormone levels. If you are talking about youth and hs sports, inclusion is far more important than the "level playing field", and yes, lace them up and run if suits you. I do think what you are suggesting is insulting. People are not transgender or gender non binary to game the system. They get mostly hate and discrimination for their identity. Nobody is doing this win the Stanford invite. If you did, you are not trans, just a jerk.

To Wise Old Man,

Thank you for an actual conversation. I’m not in favor of forcing girls to show their birth certificates every time they want to play sports and definitely not testosterone testing. But, our society already functions in a way that separates by biological characteristics. In Little League, you can only be 12 years old. In high school (in my State) if you start the year 19+ years old, you can’t compete. We have age groups for just about everything. I’m sure there’s some people that have been falsely accused of age cheating, but in all my times of Little League, AAU meets, high school, I only heard of one accusation (and it was true, the high schooler guy was 21). So I’d imagine we’d use the same process for ‘sex’ as we do ‘age’. I understand the concern about false accusations and it being damaging, but I just don’t think that will happen. Most of the country believes that sports have been separated by sex all this time anyways, and there hasn’t been rampant false accusations and demanding that girls show their birth certificates or have their testosterone tested.

Also, where is the ample data regarding transgendered athletes competing with their gender or not? Are there actually multiple studies with large sample sizes comparing transgendered athletes who are competing with their gender against those forced to compete against their biological sex instead? I try to read as much research as I can, and I haven’t come across these studies yet. I’m not saying they don’t exist, I just haven’t found them. I have read research on ‘transitioning early’, and how the relates to depression and suicide, but that’s not the same thing.

When it comes down to it, I don’t think ‘this will be the end of female sports’ as some other people do. In most circumstances, I honestly don’t think much will change. But, in some circumstances, females will be subject to unfair biological differences. Do these rare instances outweigh the negative effects on transgendered athletes and potentially all female athletes in my solution?? At this point, I think it’s impossible to prove either way. Again, I’m not really that upset with the current rules, I’m mostly upset with the notion that anyone who disagrees is anti-trans.

*If we had a poll, and the vast majority of female athletes were in favor of competition by gender, then I wouldn’t argue it.

Dear Confused

+1. Your points are valid and you are not anti anything. If we could have more conversation and less name calling, that would be great. I hope we as a society can strike a good balance between inclusion and fairness based on biological advantage, and I do think the balance might differ depending on the level of competition. I don't think these new laws in AK or AL are an attempt to do that, just a sad political stunt.