Hobbs Kessler: "There are coaches with more accolades, but pretty much all those coaches are under suspect for doping"

I saved the list...

Actually only 17 of those doped so hard core despite the ABP that they got the most damning label "likely doping" (and only those two Americans), although we now know from a couple of studies that a whopping 15-20% use blood doping (depending on the year and study).

There are too many people who falsely accuse others.

casual obsever wrote:

birdbeard wrote:

Mike Smith and Mark Wetmore both seem pretty legit and clean, and at least Wetmore has a much better resume than Warhurst thus far. Smith probably will with time.

Based on what are they "pretty legit and clean"?

Smith took in Rupp after his long-time coach got banned for three doping infractions, and Rupp appeared as "likely doping" on the leaked IAAF list, and USADA claimed that is was highly likely that Rupp used a forbidden method and that he also got flagged with a suspicious testo spike.

Wetmore allegedly sent Goucher to Dr. Brown, now also banned.

Reminds me of "birds of a feather..." all over again.

What on earth does that have to do with mike smith and Salazar should not even be banned plus Rupp never failed a single test or missed a whereabouts

Best way to test this hypothesis is with data.

Warhurst:

3 Olympic medals (Diemer, Willisx2, Kevin Sullivan should have had 1 in 2000)

9 Olympians

26 sub four minute milers

HS Mile record

Come up with a list of other coaches with better credentials than this, then we can debate whether they have benefited from doping

historical outlook wrote:

Best way to test this hypothesis is with data.

Warhurst:

3 Olympic medals (Diemer, Willisx2, Kevin Sullivan should have had 1 in 2000)

9 Olympians

26 sub four minute milers

HS Mile record

Come up with a list of other coaches with better credentials than this, then we can debate whether they have benefited from doping

I'd say you could trim the fat here to 3 Olympic Medals and 9 Olympians. You should probably add in World Championship medals, which is probably just a weak point for Warhurst if you are excluding it. Sub 4-minute milers is a fun thing to compare for NCAA coaches, and the HS mile record is a non-sequitor outside of the US.

You could put in Patrick Sang, Haji Adilo, and Addy Ruiter internationally and the credentials of their athletes blow away Warhurst's. The doping suggestion would probably be rooted in racism more than anything else.

` wrote:

LOL that's quite a lot of coaches he's implicating here, since Warhurst, while still a great coach, really does not have that many top level athletes apart from Sullivan, Brannen, and Willis.

Not surprisingly all three were the same type of athlete before they went there.

historical outlook wrote:

Best way to test this hypothesis is with data.

Warhurst:

3 Olympic medals (Diemer, Willisx2, Kevin Sullivan should have had 1 in 2000)

9 Olympians

26 sub four minute milers

HS Mile record

Come up with a list of other coaches with better credentials than this, then we can debate whether they have benefited from doping

The sub fours from before doing his training do not count.

Which HS mile record?

casual obsever wrote:

birdbeard wrote:

Mike Smith and Mark Wetmore both seem pretty legit and clean, and at least Wetmore has a much better resume than Warhurst thus far. Smith probably will with time.

Based on what are they "pretty legit and clean"?

Smith took in Rupp after his long-time coach got banned for three doping infractions, and Rupp appeared as "likely doping" on the leaked IAAF list, and USADA claimed that is was highly likely that Rupp used a forbidden method and that he also got flagged with a suspicious testo spike.

Wetmore allegedly sent Goucher to Dr. Brown, now also banned.

Reminds me of "birds of a feather..." all over again.

Wetmore also allegedly told Adam “you might be done,” before the Gouchers up and went to Salazar & then Adam mysteriously ran a PR in the 5000 out of nowhere. Allegedly.

CALL 'EM OUT wrote:

Goes on to say that Ron Warhurst is "the best clean coach in the world"

~11:30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo9V89pFEZE

Gotta take expansive, sagacious observations from a commenter who learned to masturbate like last year with a few grains of salt.

historical outlook wrote:

Best way to test this hypothesis is with data.

Warhurst:

3 Olympic medals (Diemer, Willisx2, Kevin Sullivan should have had 1 in 2000)

9 Olympians

26 sub four minute milers

HS Mile record

Come up with a list of other coaches with better credentials than this, then we can debate whether they have benefited from doping

Warhurst also worked with Tim Broe when he made the team in '04.

The agents are the worst scum. They act like pimps. Athlete does the work, they steal some of the money. And then those European agents such as Rosa, Canova, etc want their athletes to dope so they can steal more money. The africans have limited concept of finances, so these fraud agents can manipulate them for more cash. The most unscrupulous agents belong in prison.

uhh that's a really weird thing to say

casual obsever wrote:

Based on what are they "pretty legit and clean"?

Smith took in Rupp after his long-time coach got banned for three doping infractions, and Rupp appeared as "likely doping" on the leaked IAAF list, and USADA claimed that is was highly likely that Rupp used a forbidden method and that he also got flagged with a suspicious testo spike.

Wetmore allegedly sent Goucher to Dr. Brown, now also banned.

Reminds me of "birds of a feather..." all over again.

Doping rules violations, not doping violations. Not the same thing.

Solid interview. Thank you for sharing. I do not think I agree because looks at coaches like Mark Wetmore and Gags.

LOLOLOL wrote:

` wrote:

I tend to agree with this, not as a rule but just in general. There's really no reason to draw this kind of attention if you're doing everything by the book.

See: Craig Engels' comments on Bernard Lagat, Jenny Simpson. Like dude, you were CURRENTLY running for NOP when the head coach was busted for a doping violation. Settle down.

Engels was never coached by Al Sal tho only Pete and besides wouldn't you want that he isn't biased and wants all athletes who dope found out even if it's under his group

Right.

So Mr unbiased should have talked about Rupp, Centro and Kara (all admitted/known Grey area scammers if not outright dippers), not Lagat and Simpson.

.l.b.j. wrote:

casual obsever wrote:

Based on what are they "pretty legit and clean"?

Smith took in Rupp after his long-time coach got banned for three doping infractions, and Rupp appeared as "likely doping" on the leaked IAAF list, and USADA claimed that is was highly likely that Rupp used a forbidden method and that he also got flagged with a suspicious testo spike.

Wetmore allegedly sent Goucher to Dr. Brown, now also banned.

Reminds me of "birds of a feather..." all over again.

Doping rules violations, not doping violations. Not the same thing.

Lololololol sad

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

historical outlook wrote:

Best way to test this hypothesis is with data.

Warhurst:

3 Olympic medals (Diemer, Willisx2, Kevin Sullivan should have had 1 in 2000)

9 Olympians

26 sub four minute milers

HS Mile record

Come up with a list of other coaches with better credentials than this, then we can debate whether they have benefited from doping

I'd say you could trim the fat here to 3 Olympic Medals and 9 Olympians. You should probably add in World Championship medals, which is probably just a weak point for Warhurst if you are excluding it. Sub 4-minute milers is a fun thing to compare for NCAA coaches, and the HS mile record is a non-sequitor outside of the US.

You could put in Patrick Sang, Haji Adilo, and Addy Ruiter internationally and the credentials of their athletes blow away Warhurst's. The doping suggestion would probably be rooted in racism more than anything else.

Yes.

And has he ever heard of Colm O’Connell??? Makes Warhurst look like a local middle school gym teacher.

Typical U.S. kid — has never thought of the world outside of his small scope of experience.

Scott Simmons goes down as one of the best clean coaches in the USA. He belongs at the top of the list with these others.

don't really have much of a take on this, except how nauseating it is that Americans often transpose "in the world" over "in this country", without really knowing any better.

Happens surprisingly often