For those who are not getting the vaccine. Please tell us why

It's a shame that you and your wife misunderstood to the point that you thought these back to back statements were contradictions, and, if you didn't understand it, that you didn't investigate then why his statements made perfect sense then, and now. It was explained in detail at the CDC website.

I watched the 60 minutes interview first hand. I just re-watched it today to provide you those quotes.

In that interview, in that same answer, Fauci also said there can be unintended consequences to wearing a mask, when you touch the mask, then touch your face. This seemed more hypothetical to me, highlighting the risk of a lack of training.

The alleged lie was that he neglected to tell the public about the concern of shortage of PPEs for medical staff. As you have just confirmed, he said this daily.

It is important to distinguish the PPE used by medical staff for target control (e.g. N-95 respirators) -- to prevent infecting the wearer, which were in short supply, and the loose fitting surgical masks or simple cloth face coverings intended for source control -- to prevent infecting others.

PPEs work well, when fitted properly, and you've been trained so that you don't touch your mask and face.

PPEs don't work well when they are not fitted properly, and you are not trained to avoid touching your mask and face.

The Unkle wrote:

You are clinging to a farcical narrative.

The damage to us has been done by the actions of the government and the "experts", not the virus

You should read this to yourself in the mirror.

I would agree that much damage was done by the government, namely the former president, both by his actions, and inactions, that allowed the virus to do as much damage as it did, to the population, and the economy. Much of it was preventable. Lockdowns could have been minimized if so many people weren't inclined to believe conspiracy theories, and would respect social distancing and mask wearing guidelines.

It's a shame that you keep shooting the messenger.

The predictable consequence of significant population resistance to social distancing, and not following mask wearing guidelines, is increased outbreaks and mutations.

This is not new with COVID, and is not unique to the USA.

You keep denying the outbreak ever happened, despite 131 million cases, and 2.85 million deaths, worldwide, (that's a whole lot of denial, and a huge inclination to believe in a global conspiracy) but there is a great deal happening outside your little bubble. COVID was declared a pandemic in March 2020.

I don't think anybody contests that public health officials handled communication about masks TERRIBLY.

That doesn't have much to do with the vaccine though.

It's safe and effective and literally sending COVID to the history books.

We are lucky we didn't get COVID 10 years earlier.

I didn't tape those press conferences, but the message "masks are worse than nothing" came through loud and clear. And it came through over and over. And each time, I listened in amazement. Now, I knew there were good intentions, but it was still a lie. Wait, no, it wasn't a lie. It was serial lying. Over and over. Day after day.

Millions of people heard what I heard. They didn't go to the CDC website. They didn't tape 60 minutes. They listened to the the expert and and the expert said, paraphrasing, that masks were worse than nothing. In fact, I recall that he either made that statement or came very close to saying it verbatim.

The fact that he told the truth on 60 minutes doesn't negate the times he lied to the public in those press conferences. Geesh, he even admitted to lying (in so many words) in that one interview a while back.

for the record yes Fauci said 'no masks'

because he didn't want 300 million americans rushing the stores and emptying the shelves when medical professionals needed masks much more than regular people.

Was that a good call or not? Without a control, hard to tell.

But there is no doubt fauci gave advice that if taken would have harmed individuals, in favor of the greater good. In other words, most likely his prescribing 'no masks' saved more lives than it cost. Because it kept medical professionals on the job saving lives. Can't prove that though.

It's a variation of the traincar problem...whose lives do you prioritize?

agip wrote:

for the record yes Fauci said 'no masks'

because he didn't want 300 million americans rushing the stores and emptying the shelves when medical professionals needed masks much more than regular people.

Was that a good call or not? Without a control, hard to tell.

But there is no doubt fauci gave advice that if taken would have harmed individuals, in favor of the greater good. In other words, most likely his prescribing 'no masks' saved more lives than it cost. Because it kept medical professionals on the job saving lives. Can't prove that though.

It's a variation of the traincar problem...whose lives do you prioritize?

That is not the reason he said no masks.

"“There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you’re in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.”

-Fauci-

To be clear, others called "the lie" that he failed to inform the people that there was a concern about PPE shortages.

You are callling "the lie" "masks are worse than nothing".

However loud and clear that was to you, and to millions, it was the wrong takeaway.

I listened to many of the same interviews then, and did not receive that message you heard "loud and clear". The message I received, back in Feb. and March, was:

- No need (yet) for the healthy to wear masks (sometimes couple with "no community spread")

- Masks are only for the ill and medical workers

- This advice can change when we start having "community spread"

- If the healthy did wear masks, it could be worse when they do it wrong (touch their face)

- PPE -- the really good stuff -- is scarce

In April, things had changed greatly, hence the advice to wear cloth face coverings, because "PPE is still scarce".

Then in June -- how come he never talked about PPE shortages before?

agip wrote:

for the record yes Fauci said 'no masks'

because he didn't want 300 million americans rushing the stores and emptying the shelves when medical professionals needed masks much more than regular people.

Was that a good call or not? Without a control, hard to tell.

But there is no doubt fauci gave advice that if taken would have harmed individuals, in favor of the greater good. In other words, most likely his prescribing 'no masks' saved more lives than it cost. Because it kept medical professionals on the job saving lives. Can't prove that though.

It's a variation of the traincar problem...whose lives do you prioritize?

He said "no masks" before the massive outbreak.

It was the right call then, as there was no need.

fisky wrote:

The fact that he told the truth on 60 minutes doesn't negate the times he lied to the public in those press conferences. Geesh, he even admitted to lying (in so many words) in that one interview a while back.

I have to disagree with this completely -- he said the very same things in public and in all those press conferences that he said in the 60 minutes interview.

Despite your repeated insistence that you and millions others were serially misled, by Fauci, there was never any lie to negate. They were not lies then, and they are not lies now. And he never admitted to lying in that one interview (I guess you mean "The Street", where he explained in June once again about the concern about PPE shortages, just like had been explained months earlier, repeatedly.)

Harambe wrote:

I don't think anybody contests that public health officials handled communication about masks TERRIBLY.

I don't blame Fauci or the CDC for this.

rekrunner wrote:

The Unkle wrote:

You are clinging to a farcical narrative.

The damage to us has been done by the actions of the government and the "experts", not the virus

You should read this to yourself in the mirror.

I would agree that much damage was done by the government, namely the former president, both by his actions, and inactions, that allowed the virus to do as much damage as it did, to the population, and the economy. Much of it was preventable. Lockdowns could have been minimized if so many people weren't inclined to believe conspiracy theories, and would respect social distancing and mask wearing guidelines.

Trump obsessed I see.

You seem to fall for every bit of BS the machine feeds you

nah later he explained pretty clearly that he was trying to preserve PPE stocks when he advised against masks.

During a July interview with the Washington Post, Fauci said, "Back then, the critical issue was to save the masks for the people who really needed them because it was felt that there was a shortage of masks."

"What happened as the weeks and months came by, two things became clear: one, that there wasn't a shortage of masks, we had plenty of masks and coverings that you could put on that's plain cloth...so that took care of that problem," Fauci said. "Secondly, we fully realized that there are a lot of people who are asymptomatic who are spreading infection. So it became clear that we absolutely should be wearing masks consistently."

During a September interview with ABC News' "Starts Here" podcast, Fauci made similar comments about masks, suggesting that public health officials didn't recommend mask wearing because there was a shortage of personal protective equipment for health care professionals.

"So the feeling was that people who were wanting to have masks in the community, namely just people out in the street, might be hoarding masks and making the shortage of masks even greater. In that context, we said that we did not recommend masks," Fauci said.

rekrunner wrote:

You keep denying the outbreak ever happened, despite 131 million cases, and 2.85 million deaths, worldwide, (that's a whole lot of denial, and a huge inclination to believe in a global conspiracy) but there is a great deal happening outside your little bubble. COVID was declared a pandemic in March 2020.

Made up numbers. Totally nonsensical. 10% of Americans have been sick with COVID? Baloney. 10% of the people you know been down with Covid? The truthful answer is of course not.

I know several folks who have gotten sick from vaccines in the couple of months they have been around yet not a soul sick with Covid in 14 months.

Show a little common sense

Africa has four times the population of the USA, is more densely settled, and has had 1/5th the number of Covid cases and deaths. Why? More organized masking and social distancing? No. The made-up numbers have no consistency.

rekrunner wrote:

Harambe wrote:

I don't think anybody contests that public health officials handled communication about masks TERRIBLY.

I don't blame Fauci or the CDC for this.

I don't think he lied, but I think the logic of "preventing shortages" or "masks causing a false sense of security" were both bad calculations.

I think Fauci has done a great job overall. Doesn't mean there's not stuff to be learned.

Harambe wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

I don't blame Fauci or the CDC for this.

I don't think he lied, but I think the logic of "preventing shortages" or "masks causing a false sense of security" were both bad calculations.

I think Fauci has done a great job overall. Doesn't mean there's not stuff to be learned.

He told a lie but you don't think he lied.

That shows your lack of honesty.

Sorry that the vaccines work and things are improving.

356 wrote:

Harambe wrote:

I don't think he lied, but I think the logic of "preventing shortages" or "masks causing a false sense of security" were both bad calculations.

I think Fauci has done a great job overall. Doesn't mean there's not stuff to be learned.

He told a lie but you don't think he lied.

That shows your lack of honesty.

agip wrote:

for the record yes Fauci said 'no masks'

because he didn't want 300 million americans rushing the stores and emptying the shelves when medical professionals needed masks much more than regular people.

Was that a good call or not? Without a control, hard to tell.

But there is no doubt fauci gave advice that if taken would have harmed individuals, in favor of the greater good. In other words, most likely his prescribing 'no masks' saved more lives than it cost. Because it kept medical professionals on the job saving lives. Can't prove that though.

It's a variation of the traincar problem...whose lives do you prioritize?

First of all, medical professionals don't use the cloth or paper masks that normal people wear. They burn through N95 masks at such a high rate that ordinary people buying them wouldn't make much difference. He could have said "You don't need an N95 mask, just wear a normal mask." Secondly, if masks work as well as people assume, wearing masks early on should have reduced the number of people getting into the hospital in the first place, so it's not clear it would have been for the greater good.

Das Unkle wrote:

Made up numbers. Totally nonsensical. 10% of Americans have been sick with COVID? Baloney. 10% of the people you know been down with Covid? The truthful answer is of course not.

I know several folks who have gotten sick from vaccines in the couple of months they have been around yet not a soul sick with Covid in 14 months.

Show a little common sense

Africa has four times the population of the USA, is more densely settled, and has had 1/5th the number of Covid cases and deaths. Why? More organized masking and social distancing? No. The made-up numbers have no consistency.

You keep saying things like it is nonsensical, totally made up -- but as far as I can tell, you are making this nonsense up.

What you call common sense is not drawing from common experience, but just your own uncommon personal experience. Mine is the exact opposite.

You say you know zero souls, and I personally know a dozen souls who got sick with Covid. Maybe more as I haven't really checked. If I went out and took a survey of the hundreds of people I know, it would surely be more. I know no one who got sick from the vaccine.

I can't begin explain Africa -- but if I started looking, I would investigate mobility, lack of mass transit, virus transmission in hot and/or dry climates, under-reporting of cases and deaths, etc. How many Africans go away for Spring Break, or to the lake for the 4th of July, or ...?

And we just saw Dr. Birx tell us that USA should have had 1/5th the number of cases and deaths -- if only they had had better leadership.

I could see a conspiracy if it was just parts of the US, but this is worldwide -- USA, Canada, South America, Europe, Russia, Indonesia, China, Japan, Australia and New Zealand. Use common sense -- it is not credible that there would be a world-wide conspiracy, undetected by most everyone, except the extreme fringe who also reject knowledgeable authorities.