2021 Barkley Marathons - Official Thread

how are these two things related? wrote:

[quote]Brushy Mountain miner wrote:

You are right about this. Barkley is not a running event. It is a very specialized orienteering and hiking event which involves a lot of mental strength.

Orienteering is pretty useless. You need good land nav skills and to know that park really well. And to follow a veteran. That's how Jared finished as a virgin, that's how Courtney is hangin on right now. Only way to learn the course is to follow someone who knows.

~Barkley failure

Only 2 runners completed Loop 2 in time to start Loop 3.

Jared Campbell (3x finisher) and Luke Nelson. Both are on loop 3 but, at least according to John Kelly (who may know those woods better than anyone), they will complete the fun run and be done.

There will be no finishers of this years Barkley Marathons

Brushy Mountain miner wrote:

how are these two things related? wrote:

There is zero running at Barkleys. There is some very slow jogging for small portions, but otherwise it's really just power hiking and suffering. Also an ability to stay awake for 3 days.

A better example - that Gary Robbins guy who almost finished 5 loops - he recently set a 10K PB of 34:47. Yup, that's his PB, and he trained for it. He's not even fast enough to run for a half way decent high school team. I'm not knocking the guy, I'm just saying Barkley's is not an event for runners. It's hiking, orienteering for 60 hours while staying awake for 3 days. Obviously very difficult and hellish, just not a running event.

You are right about this. Barkley is not a running event. It is a very specialized orienteering and hiking event which involves a lot of mental strength.

Events like Barkleys are not my bag, and I don't enjoy suffering for more than 26.2. However, I'm curious about the race dynamics and why more people are not able to complete four laps of the race. I understand braking down on the fifth, when the athletes are no longer able to rely on one another, but why don't more people get four laps?

The race is a slow sufferfest. One must not only embrace the suck, but also possess phenomenal orienteering skills, and an ability to function at a high level while sleep deprived.

However, what exactly prevents more of the racers from simply drafting off of the best competitor for the first four laps? Racers have to split directions on the fifth, but I find it curious that more people don't get pulled through the race by relying on the leaders.

Burt T Macklin wrote:

Events like Barkleys are not my bag, and I don't enjoy suffering for more than 26.2. However, I'm curious about the race dynamics and why more people are not able to complete four laps of the race. I understand braking down on the fifth, when the athletes are no longer able to rely on one another, but why don't more people get four laps?

The race is a slow sufferfest. One must not only embrace the suck, but also possess phenomenal orienteering skills, and an ability to function at a high level while sleep deprived.

However, what exactly prevents more of the racers from simply drafting off of the best competitor for the first four laps? Racers have to split directions on the fifth, but I find it curious that more people don't get pulled through the race by relying on the leaders.

What prevents it? Well, you can work together, and plenty do, but you gotta remember, you're dealing with a lot of different variables.

First, is the ability and the want to be with the same runner(s) for that long. That in and of itself isn't easy. Maybe you don't like that person or can't stand them. Maybe you want to be alone.

Second, the weather is the big wildcard. When the fog sets in, and there are race reports out there that talk about this, that if you fell even 20 seconds off pace (which is easy to do on some of those climbs/trails), you've lost them for good.

It sounds relatively easy to get "pulled" by the more experienced runner, which obviously reduces some of the mental hassles. But the problem is you still need to work awfully hard for 9, 10, 11 hours. And then do it again. And again. And now you've "only" done the fun run, and haven't slept in 30 or more hours, or potentially not for more than a few minutes. It's just a lack of time to get everything done you need to do, even if you're with someone experienced.

Its fine to try to follow heels, but there's at least 2 factors I can think of that keep this from happening too much.

1.) The folks who really know what they're doing are strong AF and hard to follow, not too many folks who want to do these types of events can keep up.

2.) Part of the appeal of races like this to those who do them is embracing the challenge. It's not about seeing if you can keep up, it's about seeing if you could have done it on your own in the spirit of the event.

You may ask for 2, why are folks like Courtney sticking in a pack, well she's got her eye on lap 5 where she'll get the opportunity to prove herself, if not this year another year.

So does everyone who does this race come out with Lyme disease, or is it not an issue in Tennessee? Up north I can't go off trail for a second without picking up a tick.

psychlown wrote:

You may ask for 2, why are folks like Courtney sticking in a pack, well she's got her eye on lap 5 where she'll get the opportunity to prove herself, if not this year another year.

No one who has gone about it "on their own" the entire time in their first time has ever finished it their first time...except for MAYBE one.

I think there have been four "virgins" to finish Barkley:

Jared Campbell

Brett Maune

Jonathan Basham (JB)

John Fegyveresi

Campbell hung with Brett Maune (previous finisher) his first four loops

Maune hung with Alan Abbs his first two loops

Basham was with Andrew Thompson (previous finisher) his first loop and finished with Jim Nelson (previous finisher) his 2nd loop (Not sure how much they ran together).

Fegy...well, he might be the exception. It looks like he finished with Tim Englund (also a virgin that year) his first loop, but at some point on the 2nd loop they got separated, so Fegy was "out there by himself" for the better part of 40+ hours.

So the data suggests that in your first time, stick with a pack, get the valuable course experience and then be more prepared the next time to kind of go about it on your own/lead...and even then good luck.

A question:

Has anyone of color ever run the Barkley Marathons? Why is it so white?

Ghrelin wrote:

So does everyone who does this race come out with Lyme disease, or is it not an issue in Tennessee? Up north I can't go off trail for a second without picking up a tick.

It's essentially still winter there, so no ticks yet.

This is the last remaining nonstop dance marathon on earth.

The course changes every year, including how far it is. No GPS allowed to actually measure the route. The years that a newbie won were likely down to easier course years, together with good weather - and Laz has made sure that won't happen again. When the front runners came in this year after 10 hours on the first loop the run was already done. Laz is a true weirdo who who has obtained a cult following of people who are attracted to the idea of suffering for the sake of suffering. The more he creates routes that can't be completed, the more some people find themselves wanting to do it. There's a lack of objectivity there that is very interesting. I am impressed by how long these people can punish themselves. I find the explanations/justifications for why they do it interesting. People can justify anything and make anything a worthy goal. It's a unique run for unique people.

Burt T Macklin wrote:

Events like Barkleys are not my bag, and I don't enjoy suffering for more than 26.2. However, I'm curious about the race dynamics and why more people are not able to complete four laps of the race.

The top "runners" are averaging ~25min/mile. Obviously, that's not running. In some places, according to race reports, the "trail" just bushwhacks up a hill and down the other side. I live about 100 miles from the Barkleys and I've bushwhacked across our county's largest park. The footing is a thick layer of leaves that slides underfoot when the soil is moist, which is common this time of year. In some places, you have to get down on all fours to get up a hill. I imagine this is the case at Barkleys. That slipping/climbing wears you out even when you have trekking poles.

Perhaps someone with better knowledge of the course can comment on this.

Fernando Vasquez wrote:

A question:

Has anyone of color ever run the Barkley Marathons? Why is it so white?

Yes. Several Japanese runners. Normally has a large international contingent (not this year due to COVID). A few from Ecuador the year I ran.

It's exhausting. Lots of upper body strength required as you are relying heavily on trekking poles, especially when it's raining (which is always is). Underbrush is dense and tough. Add in fog, especially at night with headlamps, and it's miserable.

Fernando Vasquez wrote:

A question:

Has anyone of color ever run the Barkley Marathons? Why is it so white?

Maybe one was at the starting line, I don't know.

Keep in mind that this race glorifies James Earl Ray who shoot Martin Luther King.

^I'm not sure if you're just trolling or not. But this race does not glorify him at all, they're actually doing quite the opposite. Laz addresses this in the documentary on amazon prime.

Am I the only one who remembers that Laz cheated Radek out of winning the Quarantine Backyard Ultra last April?

Will never forgive him for that.