What are your BEST marathon workouts?

Galloway's Book on Running Paperback – October 1, 1984, not relevant to me now at my age but this book had great buildup of roughly 20 weeks centered on alternating weekly long runs with progressively increasing (speed and distance) mile repeats . it was magical for me. book includes details on setting pace based on goal and history for several brackets from 2:10 to 3:30 goal.

For me, the more experienced I got, the less I worried about specific workouts, just be consistent over a long period. Get your running shoes on every morning and run (as someone already mentioned).

To run sub 2:30, my week was typically 60-65 miles, one tempo 6-8 miles, one session of intervals (e.g. mile or km repeats) and one long run, finishing fast if feeling good. Agree with the poster who talked about running MPish on tired legs, although I never really checked my pace when training.

I think doing the complex sessions with multiple variations in pace can be good and you might find them more enjoyable but, in my opinion, they are not necessary.

A steady buildup over time through sessions every week or two at "marathon effort" (85-90% HRmax) starting at 2 x 5k with ~ 4 minute jog rest, then progressing through 3 x 5k, 4 x 5k, 2 x 10k and finally 20k continuous has worked well in my experience. These M-specific sessions would be run within a program that included other sessions at faster pace and a lot of slower (easy) running at sub-75% HRmax (M plus 60-90s/mile max).

That'll be $0.02

Your "stupid zone" is stupid.

75% of HRMax is my regular easy run average, aka 135bpm out of 180max. Which correlates perfectly with Daniels E pace. So 135-140 for me is not too fast. Below that is recovery range.

85% is my MP, maybe 2 beats higher

"Fat metabolism is no longer trained" - yeah, right. Any proof of that?

"Muscles are not yet loaded enough" - enough for what? Any proof of that?

You lack understanding of very basic training principles. Please stop posting your opinions like they are established facts.

When we are talking marathon training, any sub-MP pace burns significant amount of fat. Especially if you are running long and are glycogen depleted, as you should be as a marathoner.

The trigger for fat adaptation is glycogen depletion.

Forget the arbitrary zones, it's a continuum of paces that all have various benefits that are shifting as you go from slower to faster, but there's no paces with little benefit.

If you think your muscles are not loaded enough at MP, try running a marathon at MP and tell me how your muscles feel. It's time * intensity factor, not just intensity.

bambam wrote:

For me, the more experienced I got, the less I worried about specific workouts, just be consistent over a long period. Get your running shoes on every morning and run (as someone already mentioned).

To run sub 2:30, my week was typically 60-65 miles, one tempo 6-8 miles, one session of intervals (e.g. mile or km repeats) and one long run, finishing fast if feeling good. Agree with the poster who talked about running MPish on tired legs, although I never really checked my pace when training.

I think doing the complex sessions with multiple variations in pace can be good and you might find them more enjoyable but, in my opinion, they are not necessary.

Couldn't agree more.

1) 90 minute fartlek of 3 minutes fast 3 minutes not as fast. Switch between 15 seconds faster than marathon pace and 20-30 seconds slower than marathon pace

2) 16-20 miles 10 seconds slower than marathon pace, shouldn't quite be race effort

3) 15 miles of 2 miles at (marathon + 20 seconds) pace and then 1 mile at half marathon pace, keep alternating

4) one long run at an easy pace 27 miles or 3 hours, whichever is shorter.

Roughly one of these per week, paired with a more mild workout one of the days and lots of mileage.

These are not hobby jogger workouts, they are pretty tough. But you'll be ready to run a fast marathon

I never did any specific workouts for the marathon, I basically just kept the mileage high enough that I could run one anytime. I suppose the thing most like a marathon workout was my weekly 16-20 mile run at the pace I'd likely run for the marathon.

I went from 2:37 to 2:21 with several key workouts;

1. MPW increased from 65 to 105

2. 20+2 workout- 20M long run followed by 2M at marathon pace, 1M c/d

3. 10M tempo at marathon pace- this is the staple workout every 3 weeks

4. 8x1M at 10K pace with 75 second recovery

5. 5x2M at 10K pace with 3:00 recovery

6. 10x800 fartlek alternating between 5K/HM pace

There's other great variants to mix up the training, but these were the critical sessions that both validated readiness for race day. The reality is that it takes several marathon training cycles (without getting injured) to hit your optimal performance. 2:21 was my payoff after 3 years of training.

My key workouts are generally:

Tempo/LT Variations totaling 10K

-3x2 mile

-2x3 mile

-10k continuous

Long MP runs:

-4x3 mi w/1 mi float recovery

-12 mi (16 total)

-15 mi (18-19 total)

Raced half marathon as a tuneup/indicator

Key for those MP runs, as others have pointed out, is that you are simulating a bit of fatigue ... throwing one in as the capper of a 75-80 mile week, when you’ve already done an LT day and maybe a shorter tertiary workout does a nice job of prepping you to perform on the day.

I usually try to get a 16-week cycle in. Max mileage around 85-90

Some sort of track work outs (miles, Ks, or even 2/3k repeats) once a week, generally around half marathon pace or slightly faster.

6 mile temp every other week (I was training for Boston so picked an out a back with rolling up hills the first mile then rolling downs on the way back). started the cycle at about marathon pace but worked its way down to halfway between half/marathon pace by the end).

On the weeks I did not do a tempo, would include some MP work in my long run. Start with say miles 12-17 being at MP, and increase the milage as training went on. The biggest workout would be the final 10 miles of a 20/21 milers at MP about 3 weeks out. Long runs started at 15ish and get a little longer each time till you have 2/3 20 plus mile runs.

I also like to run a half about around 6 weeks before the marathon, and probably one or two 5/10 ks towards the beginning of the cycle.

This got me to 2:37 at Boston.

100 meters of chicken cluckers daily.

Increases areobic power, leg strength, and hip flexibility.

Marathon Hobby Jogger wrote:

Looking to break 2:40 and trying to create a better training plan.

Thanks!

If you're going to break 2:40, you don't need advice from me. But since you asked, and it's free...

I just did Pfitzinger's 55-70 mpw plan. As someone who just resumed running 1.5 yr ago after a long layoff, it bought me a 34 min PR, going from 3:47 to 3:13 (in 37F, heavy rain on a flooded course at age 47). The best workouts in there were lots of long runs (up to 22) and every few weeks fast finish long runs, the toughest of which was 18 mi, with the last 14 at marathon pace. There were also lots of tempo runs (up to 60min) and a mid week long run up to 15 miles. A few strides here and there.

Basically, grinding out lots of miles, lots of 15-22 mi longs runs, long tempos and getting used to marathon pace on tired legs. For me, the MP fast finish long runs were the best and toughest test.

For sub 2:40, if you're 20 years younger than me, you might get there on this schedule alone. If I was going to get to 2:40 at my age, I'd probably need to get to 80-90+ mpw and give it about a year. Right now I'm focused more on sub-3:10, then sub-3:00, hopefully.

Runningart2004 wrote:

1. 10 miles easy, 10 miles marathon pace

2. Any long run finishing at marathon pace

Anything else is just "improving fitness".

Marathon pace is easy. Marathon pace while fatigued is not.

I would often run back to back workouts. Day 1 run 4+ miles at HM pace. Day 2 run 9-12mi at MP. Add in the fact that you're running doubles and you're now trying to run MP while kinda fatigued.

Throw in random miles at MP. You need to be able to find that groove. If not then you end up going out way too fast in your marathon or struggle to find that sweet spot.

Be effective at drinking water on the run. The marathon is also a battle of thermodynamics.

Alan

These are all workouts on the final surge NAZ plan

"Marathon pace is easy. Marathon pace while fatigued is not.

Throw in random miles at MP. You need to be able to find that groove. If not then you end up going out way too fast in your marathon or struggle to find that sweet spot."

I disagree with both assertions. Marathon pace is kinda hard. I never feel I'm going easy except maybe the first mile of Boston.

Recognizing that I'm in a distinct minority, I don't think it is necessary to train at MP. You cannot find a "groove" through training; the conditions are just not the same. You are not tapered, not full of race mojo, not in race weather. So MP is an unknown until you are in the mix. Run the first two miles slower than you hope MP will be, and let the correct pace come to you, reminding your "central governor" all the time that you have 26.22 to go. By mile 4 you will be in the groove and clicking along, don't force it, just let it take you. With this approach I have run some very close negative splits. The training is faster or slower than MP.

real marathon workouts must come after a strong foundation, otherwise you crumble and fall. If your body and system is prepared these workouts are great for big fitness gains and used sparingly no more than 2(3 if you are veteran and very strong) a cycle

35-40k @ 95% of race pace

3x10k @ mp + 10 to MP w mile rest

2x 6-8miles @ faster than mp

5m-4m-3m-2m-1m progression w mile jog rest

long fartleks 2-220 in duration w fartlek from 90min mark to 210min in running

training should be done without fuel and only water on these ,to maximize fuel efficiency and this will give you turbo diesel late in marathoning when it get's real out there ( 35k and on in the race)

First three rules of training are specificity, specificity, specificity. You must ask yourself, "what does the race require"? Well, the marathon is a super long tempo run. Training should include long tempos.

Some of my favorites:

- 20 mile long run with 6 mi E and last 14 at MP

- 22 mile long run with 4 mi E, 7 mi MP, 2 mi E, 7 mi MP, 2 mi E

I like integrating a long tempos 2 out of every 3 long runs. And I prefer 5-6 20 mi long runs over the course of a 16-week marathon training block.

I like this

OutlawG wrote:

real marathon workouts must come after a strong foundation, otherwise you crumble and fall. If your body and system is prepared these workouts are great for big fitness gains and used sparingly no more than 2(3 if you are veteran and very strong) a cycle

35-40k @ 95% of race pace

3x10k @ mp + 10 to MP w mile rest

2x 6-8miles @ faster than mp

5m-4m-3m-2m-1m progression w mile jog rest

long fartleks 2-220 in duration w fartlek from 90min mark to 210min in running

training should be done without fuel and only water on these ,to maximize fuel efficiency and this will give you turbo diesel late in marathoning when it get's real out there ( 35k and on in the race)

I like this

Tychus Findlay wrote:

I went from 2:37 to 2:21 with several key workouts;

1. MPW increased from 65 to 105

2. 20+2 workout- 20M long run followed by 2M at marathon pace, 1M c/d

3. 10M tempo at marathon pace- this is the staple workout every 3 weeks

4. 8x1M at 10K pace with 75 second recovery

5. 5x2M at 10K pace with 3:00 recovery

6. 10x800 fartlek alternating between 5K/HM pace

There's other great variants to mix up the training, but these were the critical sessions that both validated readiness for race day. The reality is that it takes several marathon training cycles (without getting injured) to hit your optimal performance. 2:21 was my payoff after 3 years of training.

5x2 mile @ 10k pace w/ 3' recovery? Did I read that right? Is that even possible?