Running for fitness vs competition

If it is just for fun and health, why keep it so rigid? I don't think there is anything at all wrong with your plan, but that rigidness strikes me as something leaning towards competitiveness rather than fitness. Like you still have a competitive training mindset. Might not matter. But if it makes you a slave to the program (or interval times, or number of hills run) then your nagging injuries will stick with you.

If it were me (and it kind of is, as I'm mostly in it for the fitness though just a few years younger than you), I like to just roll with things and see how they go. Also, personally, if I dropped all my easy running and only did hills and intervals, I would definitely stay hurt. Lots of easy hour long runs plus lifting is the key for me. And then when I feel good, I toss in a fartlek or a progression run or whatever. But only when it feels right. YMMV obviously.

If just looking for fitness and injury avoidance, why bother with track workouts and hills?

I would do it the other way around. Drop the high intensity stuff and just run easy. If you do decide to enter a race, introduce the workouts then.

I’d replace one of your lifting days to an easy run. And also take out one of your track or hill repeats and replace with an easy run. Then, I’d just alternate between track workout or hill repeats every other week.

You’ll be plenty fit with that amount of workout and less likely for injuries.

I think doing a lot of lifting instead of easy runs could cause more injuries as you may end up going hard almost everyday by either going hard running or lifting hard.

You should run 100 miles per week.

The reason for the schedule is simply that's how I'm wired. Maybe too many years training to race. Just winging it every day... that'd drive me crazy. I like a schedule because I can see if I am staying fit or making gains or totally losing it.

The reason I am looking at dropping the easy days is that those are the days I am really finding it difficult to get any degree of motivation. I LIKE to work out. I like the feeling of accomplishment, and I like that very tired, just -got your -ass kicked feeling after a good bout.

Never say never yeah keep some what fit do stuff you like see where it goes.

Right before turning 64 I ran a 2:28 800 which was sweet . Goal was to break 2:30. I did pretty low volume all pretty easy except for some weekly sprint work or maybe a couple of 400s nothing all that hard. Point is you can get pretty close to your best on 800 without the miles and preserve the ability to run. Kinda like book ends: lsd and speed skip the middle stuff til you feel the desire.

Totally get you on the wiring thing. I love programs and and geeking out over the details in theory, but then somehow in practice I'm more of a go with the flow tweak things kind of guy. It's definitely one of the cool things about our sport, finding your own personal theory of training.

And if you want that feeling of working hard and being wiped out, more lifting and more workouts will definitely do it. But it seems like the bigger question will be whether or not your body can handle it.

How similar has your training the last few years been to what you proposed in your initial post? If you were always doing a lot of intensity, and this new plan has less, that might work out well.

I'd say how it differs is that my typical week would have a long run of12+, tempos that were probably around 8M by the time I did some w/o and c/down miles, and track days that again ended up with 6-8M in total, then the easy days that were probably 5-8M. So I had 6 days of running, and maybe some lifting depending on the time of year. Weekly mileage of 40 on the low end, 70 on the highest end.

I’d suggest doing any sort of cardio for at least 45 minutes 5x per week to stay aerobically fit. If you’re not racing, lower intensity would be better due to higher risk of injury doing track/hill workouts post-50.

Weight training and yoga are great to keep toned.

One other idea if your motivation dwindles or you get antsy to compete again- pick some sort of off-distance running event to keep you motivated. For example, a 800m track race or a crazy trail ultra.

What type of lifting? I'd work in powerlifting to retain strength such as deadlifts, squats - front and back, bench, strict press with weightlifting for athleticism like power cleans, push press, snatch if you have the form down. Last on the list are bodybuilding exercises like bicep curls, dumbbell rows, or any machine.

dfasdfsdfdsfd wrote:

You should run 100 miles per week.

22 miles per day every day is the new normal.

RunningOtaku wrote:

I’d suggest doing any sort of cardio for at least 45 minutes 5x per week to stay aerobically fit. If you’re not racing, lower intensity would be better due to higher risk of injury doing track/hill workouts post-50.

Weight training and yoga are great to keep toned.

One other idea if your motivation dwindles or you get antsy to compete again- pick some sort of off-distance running event to keep you motivated. For example, a 800m track race or a crazy trail ultra.

If Im going to do cardio 5x a week for 45 min I'd just stick to my regular running routine.

I'm pretty sure I am done racing at this age and the idea of doing an ultra sounds like the most boring thing ever... no effin way. I'd be more likely to try and run a fast mile than slog around to try and finish an ultra.

When I say "fit" that's not Runner Fit meaning you are race ready, I mean General Public Fit, meaning I am still slim, still healthy, etc.

The idea of going around jogging the daily 5M isn't what I want to do. The theory behind the higher intensity days is that the days I am running, I want to get the most bang for my buck. Also, it is very hard to get injured on hill workouts, track.. yeah no doubt, but running up a hill is one of the safest ways to work out (just dont trip jogging back down.)

I’m 65, have been training since 1977.

It was the rigid schedule that I enjoyed the most.

I always stayed with it and just continued to do certain workouts at certain times as if I was getting ready for something.

What I have a problem doing is getting myself to a race.

The legs are gone but I just like keeping the log and doing the training or I should say going through the motions.

Ran 2000 miles last year, 13 weeks over 50 miles, tempos, speed work, lifting...just no races.

This is an interesting discussion, and I keep thinking about. As I said earlier, I'm a bit younger than the OP, but I see the writing on the wall and definitely gravitate towards more all around fitness than pure running training. Though at the moment I am still training more in the pure running realm. I might only have a few years of that left, though.

Anyways, for whatever reason, I spent what were probably my best running years (mid-20s to mid-30s) not doing any running and focusing almost primarily on strength and lifting. One of the things it took me a long time to learn in that period was that running and lifting have a ton in common. One of the big ones being that the most successful long term lifters I knew and followed spent the vast majority of their time training easy. That is around 70 percent effort and they got a lot of volume in. Longer sessions, more days per week, etc. They rarely lifted balls to the wall. But sometimes they did. And when they did, they got amazing results. Same with so many of the best runners we see. They put in a ton of time running easy at around 70 percent. They pick their truly hard efforts and races carefully.

The more I think about it, the more I think the plan you posted above will work, for about 6 weeks. Maybe as many as 10. I don't think it is a year long sustainable plan. Especially not if you want your lifting sessions to be the kind that give you that thoroughly worked and used feeling you get after running workouts.

A lot of people I knew in the general fitness lifting world would do what I said above, tons of manageable workouts with more frequency. Another crowd would get into the kind of program you posted and do them for 1-3 months. At that point, they would need to change it up to a very different program and go after different kinds of results. I think most people doing this had a lot of fun because they got to work hard more regularly and chase different goals. I'd say from an all around perspective, they were super fit. Maybe more fit than the other crowd. But they were not as strong and solid just in lifting because they weren't playing the long game.

I'd be super curious to hear a follow up in a few months with an update on however the training is going and what you find works best for you given your new goals.

I will follow up.

I figure the "lifting" days are just like with running, they can really vary. Some days might be all body weight stuff like pull ups, push ups etc.. some days will be lifting light but high reps, some will have heavy weight but low reps, plus I will have to figure in some kind of split where I'll work different body parts on different days.

I dont plan on doing the same lifting routine every "lift" day the same as I wouldn't do the same run or running effort every day.

If after a month or 6 weeks I hate this, I can always go back to running every day. Also on the lift days if I feel like doing an easy jog later in the day, there's nothing stopping me.

Finished week 1 using this schedule. Not too bad, only got in 3 days of running and 4 days of lifting. Need to flip that next week, definitely need to keep 4 days of running.

1 long

1 track

1 hills

1 easy

Cool stuff. Having fewer runs on the first week that you also lift more doesn't seem like a completely terrible thing. I'm sure in the coming weeks you'll find a nice balance.

I'd throw in some outdoor cycling as well. Great for cardio and will take some of the pounding off of your legs.